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NobleGuy
7,030 posts
84 months
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carmonk said: There are billions of other 'things' that are just as likely as your god and my hydra and the evidence for any one of them is zero. Having the same amount of evidence for two things doesn't necessarily make them equally likely to be true.
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TheHeretic
68,041 posts
124 months
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TheHeretic
68,041 posts
124 months
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NobleGuy said: Having the same amount of evidence for two things doesn't necessarily make them equally likely to be true. Absolutely, you have to apply probability, and reason. That is why we know that the tooth fairy is pretty much odds on to be a FIFA,ent of our imagination, as well as Ra, Thor, etc. why do you think God is outside of this bracket of improbability?
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Boydie88
844 posts
18 months
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Religious argument... There must have been a start point in which everything started, therefore God created it.
...Who/what created God then? How did God come to exist?
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carmonk
7,910 posts
56 months
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NobleGuy said: carmonk said: There are billions of other 'things' that are just as likely as your god and my hydra and the evidence for any one of them is zero. Having the same amount of evidence for two things doesn't necessarily make them equally likely to be true. Actually, it does. (assuming you count knowledge as evidence).
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CommanderJameson
20,694 posts
95 months
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Boydie88 said: Religious argument... There must have been a start point in which everything started, therefore God created it.
...Who/what created God then? How did God come to exist? Good luck with that. You'll probably get a boatload of verbose sophistry that boils down to "er, dunno".
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TheHeretic
68,041 posts
124 months
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CommanderJameson said: Boydie88 said: Religious argument... There must have been a start point in which everything started, therefore God created it.
...Who/what created God then? How did God come to exist? Good luck with that. You'll probably get a boatload of verbose sophistry that boils down to "er, dunno". The verbatim answer is timeless, space less, and so on. Basically, they change the goalposts for their particular chap. They apply a standard to physics, which is not applied to their own deity.
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NobleGuy
7,030 posts
84 months
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CommanderJameson said: NobleGuy said: Rubbish. A magic hydra that requires no matter isn't a hydra at all. Like I said some pages back it's something else, but it isn't a hydra. If you're saying it's something a bit more God-like then I'd tend to agree because when carmonk says "magic hydra" he is in fact simply replacing the term "a God of some kind" with that phrase... Keep up. How do you know that a magic hydra requires no matter? It's magic. The whole point of deities is that they're magic. If they weren't magic, they wouldn't be deities. You can't be "a bit more godlike". It's like being a "a bit more pregnant". If god isn't matter but it can affect and create matter, then how does that work? Magic, that's how. Like a cosmic Paul Daniels. But...you're agreeing with me... 
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CommanderJameson
20,694 posts
95 months
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NobleGuy said: CommanderJameson said: NobleGuy said: Rubbish. A magic hydra that requires no matter isn't a hydra at all. Like I said some pages back it's something else, but it isn't a hydra. If you're saying it's something a bit more God-like then I'd tend to agree because when carmonk says "magic hydra" he is in fact simply replacing the term "a God of some kind" with that phrase... Keep up. How do you know that a magic hydra requires no matter? It's magic. The whole point of deities is that they're magic. If they weren't magic, they wouldn't be deities. You can't be "a bit more godlike". It's like being a "a bit more pregnant". If god isn't matter but it can affect and create matter, then how does that work? Magic, that's how. Like a cosmic Paul Daniels. But...you're agreeing with me... No, I'm not. Re-read. Your thing and his thing are the same, and arguing that a magic thing needs to be made of matter is pointless, because his thing is an illustration of the point that it's just a made up thing, because his thing and your thing are the same, and he pulled his out of his arse yesterday.
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NobleGuy
7,030 posts
84 months
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carmonk said: NobleGuy said: carmonk said: There are billions of other 'things' that are just as likely as your god and my hydra and the evidence for any one of them is zero. Having the same amount of evidence for two things doesn't necessarily make them equally likely to be true. Actually, it does. (assuming you count knowledge as evidence). Oh dear. You would never agree even if I copied exactly what you'd just written. Like I said pages back, this entire thread is full of people who have to be right no matter what...
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bikemonster
1,188 posts
110 months
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Gow3r said: Oh dear oh dear.
The Bible is clear there is One true God, however in existence are other im pretty sure even in the Duet passage it mentions, false God's, idols they worship, the Golden Calf in Ex 32 for example, it was an idol a God to the people, they worshipped as if it were the calf that saved them from Egypt not God.
Where did they come from, are they not merely of human imagination? Human desire for something other than the true God, we have it all the time, I want to believe in this because it satisfy's my needs or sits most comfortably with how I view life.
Only One God, yet lots of things that take the form of "God's in our life, as we give them our time and our worship. You're putting a very modern spin on it. Go back and re-read the OT. The whole thing, not just the bits that support your view of your religion. You will find thinly veiled excuses for fleecing the populace, genocide, misogyny, ignorance, treachery and deceit. And that's from the supposed good guys.
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NobleGuy
7,030 posts
84 months
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CommanderJameson said: NobleGuy said: CommanderJameson said: NobleGuy said: Rubbish. A magic hydra that requires no matter isn't a hydra at all. Like I said some pages back it's something else, but it isn't a hydra. If you're saying it's something a bit more God-like then I'd tend to agree because when carmonk says "magic hydra" he is in fact simply replacing the term "a God of some kind" with that phrase... Keep up. How do you know that a magic hydra requires no matter? It's magic. The whole point of deities is that they're magic. If they weren't magic, they wouldn't be deities. You can't be "a bit more godlike". It's like being a "a bit more pregnant". If god isn't matter but it can affect and create matter, then how does that work? Magic, that's how. Like a cosmic Paul Daniels. But...you're agreeing with me... No, I'm not. Re-read. Your thing and his thing are the same, and arguing that a magic thing needs to be made of matter is pointless, because his thing is an illustration of the point that it's just a made up thing, because his thing and your thing are the same, and he pulled his out of his arse yesterday. You are agreeing you moron. My point from the beginning was that "magic hydra" and "wicker buffalo" aren't as likely as God to be a creator unless carmonk is using those terms to mean "something God-like", in which case he's using unnecessarily derogatory terms to belittle the beliefs of others (which I always knew to be the case). My whole point was that carmonk is a p***k. Do you not understand this yet...?
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CommanderJameson
20,694 posts
95 months
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NobleGuy said: You are agreeing you moron. And... ...we're done.
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NobleGuy
7,030 posts
84 months
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CommanderJameson said: NobleGuy said: You are agreeing you moron. And... ...we're done. Not my fault you join in then frustrate me with your inability to read between the lines...
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Gow3r
960 posts
24 months
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bikemonster said: Gow3r said: Oh dear oh dear.
The Bible is clear there is One true God, however in existence are other im pretty sure even in the Duet passage it mentions, false God's, idols they worship, the Golden Calf in Ex 32 for example, it was an idol a God to the people, they worshipped as if it were the calf that saved them from Egypt not God.
Where did they come from, are they not merely of human imagination? Human desire for something other than the true God, we have it all the time, I want to believe in this because it satisfy's my needs or sits most comfortably with how I view life.
Only One God, yet lots of things that take the form of "God's in our life, as we give them our time and our worship. You're putting a very modern spin on it. Go back and re-read the OT. The whole thing, not just the bits that support your view of your religion. You will find thinly veiled excuses for fleecing the populace, genocide, misogyny, ignorance, treachery and deceit. And that's from the supposed good guys. I am not looking for thinly veiled excuses, I am pretty sure the Bible is blatant, for example with Joshua, this is the land promised to you, remove the opposition and those who serve false Gods and idols (kill them all) yes I read that.. And I dont need you to tell me to re-read the OT, as I believe the whole of the Bible is the word of God not just the bits and pieces that are often quoted, it is you guys as I read through this thread that misquote one off verses to support your arguments instead of understanding the bigger picture. How is it a modern spin? All humanity has ever done is live to serve number one, I see no reason to say this was not the case back when the Bible was written, especially when you read accounts of Baal worship, or Egypt worshipped this frog headed God Heket, etc, it was all the rage
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TheHeretic
68,041 posts
124 months
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NobleGuy said: You are agreeing you moron. My point from the beginning was that "magic hydra" and "wicker buffalo" aren't as likely as God to be a creator unless carmonk is using those terms to mean "something God-like", in which case he's using unnecessarily derogatory terms to belittle the beliefs of others (which I always knew to be the case).
My whole point was that carmonk is a p***k. Do you not understand this yet...? Reported.
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TheHeretic
68,041 posts
124 months
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Gow3r said: I am not looking for thinly veiled excuses, I am pretty sure the Bible is blatant, for example with Joshua, this is the land promised to you, remove the opposition and those who serve false Gods and idols (kill them all) yes I read that..
And I dont need you to tell me to re-read the OT, as I believe the whole of the Bible is the word of God not just the bits and pieces that are often quoted, it is you guys as I read through this thread that misquote one off verses to support your arguments instead of understanding the bigger picture.
How is it a modern spin? All humanity has ever done is live to serve number one, I see no reason to say this was not the case back when the Bible was written, especially when you read accounts of Baal worship, or Egypt worshipped this frog headed God Heket, etc, it was all the rage What is the bigger picture?
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NobleGuy
7,030 posts
84 months
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TheHeretic said: NobleGuy said: You are agreeing you moron. My point from the beginning was that "magic hydra" and "wicker buffalo" aren't as likely as God to be a creator unless carmonk is using those terms to mean "something God-like", in which case he's using unnecessarily derogatory terms to belittle the beliefs of others (which I always knew to be the case).
My whole point was that carmonk is a p***k. Do you not understand this yet...? Reported. 
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Gow3r
960 posts
24 months
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TheHeretic said: What is the bigger picture? What I mean by that, is quite simple really, if you read the Bible you can take any old verse independantly and get it to say what you want, hence you have idiots (who are not christians) though they think they are like westboro baptist, getting the Bible to justify their extreme beliefs which are not biblical. In short they have no biblical theology, they do not get how it all ties together (dont quote your contradictions at me again, we did that 60 pages ago, and you ignored my response), you see if you have a biblical theology you see the themes of the Bible, then when you come across a one off verse that says something we consider odd we dont mis-interpet it because we have an understanding of the characteristics of God. Also a lot of it has to do with a misunderstanding of the Old Covenant and how it relates to the New Covenant and how really the Bible is one story about God and his story of redemption through Jesus Christ his son.
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bikemonster
1,188 posts
110 months
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Gow3r said: 1. I believe the whole of the Bible is the word of God not just the bits and pieces that are often quoted
2. All humanity has ever done is live to serve number one, I see no reason to say this was not the case back when the Bible was written I've edited your quote to highlight two separate points you made, the second of which rather calls into question the first, don't you think? If you feel I've misquoted, which was not my intention, please clarify.
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