Books: A Song of Ice and Fire [SPOILERS]

Books: A Song of Ice and Fire [SPOILERS]

Author
Discussion

lemmingjames

7,433 posts

203 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
Halb said:
Arya has a strong sense of family, and overall justice.
Sansa is more about herself and her family saving her...I think.
Sansa might grow in more ways than one as she assumes her role as LF's intellectual heir. I'm ambivalent at the moment, she could be a power for 'a setting things a right', or she could be become a better Littlefinger than Littlefinger.
She best hurry up then as theres only 2 books left to go and shes only just left the Eyrie

Though wasnt 'sansa' married to the bd or was that 'Ayra'?

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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I thought Sansa was still in the Eerie?
And false Arya (Jeyne) married the bd.

lemmingjames

7,433 posts

203 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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Been a while since i read the last book (current rereading Book 2) but sure they left as she was helping down the heir to eyrie with a winter storm coming in.

I remember that she had been promised to marry some old school house and then come out with who she is. Though Rickson(?) still to return, unless hes just bumped off somewhere (along with shaggy dog)

Bran wont be allowed to leave the tree (i doubt)

Jon will be resurrected (if we go by Mel learning that its possible on tv)

And the helpful white walker is obviously a warg, so maybe the ranger who disappeared?


Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
lemmingjames said:
Been a while since i read the last book (current rereading Book 2) but sure they left as she was helping down the heir to eyrie with a winter storm coming in.

I remember that she had been promised to marry some old school house and then come out with who she is. Though Rickson(?) still to return, unless hes just bumped off somewhere (along with shaggy dog)

Bran wont be allowed to leave the tree (i doubt)

Jon will be resurrected (if we go by Mel learning that its possible on tv)

And the helpful white walker is obviously a warg, so maybe the ranger who disappeared?
Ahh right yeah, Sansa leaves the Eyrie but is still in the Vale. I vaguely recall the betrothal but not the reveal. I intend to reread the books after the fourth series.

Bran will be come the tree-man superseer, and possibly take very little direct action in the story. Rickon will be become the heir by the laws of the land, I reckon he'll survive.

Jon will come back, depends how much of him comes back. If the theories on his warg abilities helping to retain 100% of himself are true. Dondarrion slowly 'lost himself', while the gap was so long for Cat that all that was able to come back was her anger and thirst for vengeance.

Coldhands a warg? Interesting, not thought of that. Possibly when Benjen died his spirit leapt into a wight's body? Or when he actually died his spirit was able to maintain control over himself instead of becoming a zombie under the control of the White Walkers?

lemmingjames

7,433 posts

203 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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It would appear all of the starks have some sort of warg ability (hes never written about sansa though) so im going with that angle. Also didnt the wildling warg shift into one when he got caught?

Alapeno

1,391 posts

146 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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Interview with GRRM for Rolling Stone has just been put up. clicky

For me, the point about Aragorn's tax policies sums up why these books are great. You'll see what I mean.

richtea78

5,574 posts

157 months

Thursday 24th April 2014
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I kind of agree and I kind of don't. I like that this sort of thing is considered but to be honest I'm sick of reading about Dany and the problems she has running her city. It's booooring. It was interesting for a while but it's past that now. I wouldn't actually care if the dragons ate every one of them.

It's a great interview though. Thanks for posting it

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Thursday 24th April 2014
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Great interview.


King Elessar Telcontar does ride into the East to wage war against the Easterlings and other men who fought under Sauron, but the Goblins basically die out since the Age of Men gets under way and things start to die out as the last elves leave.

richtea78

5,574 posts

157 months

Thursday 24th April 2014
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When I said I found the stuff with Dany boring Halb, thats nothing compared to how boring I found Tolkiens books!

I have read The Hobbit (quite enjoyed it) The LOTR Trilogy (wasnt bad but a bit dull) and tried reading the Silmarillion several times but its painful. I still cant get past the fact that if the Eagles werent such faggots about it, they could have just carried him in and dropped the Ring. OK some/a lot of them would have died but meh. The Eagles basically fked over everyone who dies in Lord of the Rings because they were scared. And they are meant to be noble. Very noble!!!

Also another issue I have with it, why did it take so long between The Hobbit and LOTR. I dont know the exact time but Bilbo got old and Hobbits live a long time (I actually quite like the Dwarves and the Hobbits). I think Gandalf fked this up. Or he was off smoking something in his pipe and whoring his way around.

I actually prefer David Eddings to the Tolkien stuff. They are fun to read. I think what GRRM says in that interview is very accurate. I read at times as an escape from reality because its very relaxing. Reading ASOIAF isnt relaxing. Its great for a whole different reason but its not something you can relax when reading. Or if you do, someone ends up dead. I remember reading The Red Wedding and being totally gutted. When Jon Snow gets killed at the end of ADWD I had to read it about 10 times before I sure (even then I was probably more gutted about the Giant. He was fun!)

Oh getting back to the topic. Did anyone notice Alliser Thorne seemed to be listening to Jon Snow when talking about the Wildlings and the rogue Rangers. I wonder if he is going to have a change of heart. In the books there are a lot more Nights Watch and I dont think we have seen in particular Donal Noye. He is kind of important but they could use someone else. Im wondering if Thorne will take Noyes place.

I also cannot wait for Jon to kill Janos. I really hope they dont cut that bit out

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Thursday 24th April 2014
quotequote all
richtea78 said:
I still cant get past the fact that if the Eagles werent such faggots about it, they could have just carried him in and dropped the Ring. OK some/a lot of them would have died but meh. The Eagles basically fked over everyone who dies in Lord of the Rings because they were scared. And they are meant to be noble. Very noble!!!
Tolkien is still King for me. biggrin
They couldn't. Even if they had survived getting to Mordor, they most likely wouldn't have gotten anywhere near Mount Doom. Sauron controlled the skies there.

Alapeno

1,391 posts

146 months

Thursday 24th April 2014
quotequote all
richtea78 said:
I kind of agree and I kind of don't. I like that this sort of thing is considered but to be honest I'm sick of reading about Dany and the problems she has running her city. It's booooring. It was interesting for a while but it's past that now. I wouldn't actually care if the dragons ate every one of them.

It's a great interview though. Thanks for posting it
I understood it as a metaphorical example, rather than his actual tax policies. I think he meant that Aragorn is a clear cut hero in LOTR but he may have actually been hated by ordinary folk. I don't think we see that side of things if that makes sense.

I agree though, Dany's running of the city, starvation etc was probably the most boring bit for me in the last book. Everyone loves Dany in the show but I think she's my least favourite story line in the books.

richtea78

5,574 posts

157 months

Thursday 24th April 2014
quotequote all
Alapeno said:
I understood it as a metaphorical example, rather than his actual tax policies. I think he meant that Aragorn is a clear cut hero in LOTR but he may have actually been hated by ordinary folk. I don't think we see that side of things if that makes sense.

I agree though, Dany's running of the city, starvation etc was probably the most boring bit for me in the last book. Everyone loves Dany in the show but I think she's my least favourite story line in the books.
Oh that makes sense. I took it a bit more literally in that GRRM wanted to explain the running of a city after the war was won.

And everyone loves Dany in the TV show because of her boobs!

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Thursday 24th April 2014
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This is a bad thing? tongue out



For readers who want a fantasy city as a real place, then Ankh-Morpork hasn't been bettered.

richtea78

5,574 posts

157 months

Thursday 24th April 2014
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Actually thats spot on. I love Discworld. Ive got several hardbacks signed by Terry Pratchett.

A great man who has never got the recognition he deserves.

jesusbuiltmycar

4,534 posts

253 months

Thursday 24th April 2014
quotequote all
Halb said:
Ahh right yeah, Sansa leaves the Eyrie but is still in the Vale. I vaguely recall the betrothal but not the reveal. I intend to reread the books after the fourth series.

Bran will be come the tree-man superseer, and possibly take very little direct action in the story. Rickon will be become the heir by the laws of the land, I reckon he'll survive.

Jon will come back, depends how much of him comes back. If the theories on his warg abilities helping to retain 100% of himself are true. Dondarrion slowly 'lost himself', while the gap was so long for Cat that all that was able to come back was her anger and thirst for vengeance.

Coldhands a warg? Interesting, not thought of that. Possibly when Benjen died his spirit leapt into a wight's body? Or when he actually died his spirit was able to maintain control over himself instead of becoming a zombie under the control of the White Walkers?
Rickon is on Skagos and the Onion Knight is going to be looking for him.

Is Jon dead? ADWD did not explicitly say he dies, just he "blacked out" afetr multiple stab wounds.
Very injured but not necessarily dead...

confucuis

1,303 posts

123 months

Thursday 24th April 2014
quotequote all
Halb said:
richtea78 said:
I still cant get past the fact that if the Eagles werent such faggots about it, they could have just carried him in and dropped the Ring. OK some/a lot of them would have died but meh. The Eagles basically fked over everyone who dies in Lord of the Rings because they were scared. And they are meant to be noble. Very noble!!!
Tolkien is still King for me. biggrin
They couldn't. Even if they had survived getting to Mordor, they most likely wouldn't have gotten anywhere near Mount Doom. Sauron controlled the skies there.
It's not that they couldn't or were afraid to its that they saw the no point in it. The eagles were they're own race with their own kingdom in the skies. As far as I know they had a direct link to Manwe (the most powerful demi-God, Erus second in command) and could interact with him. A bit like Tom Bombadil they weren't worried about the conflicts that affected men with Sauron and didn't view them as important. They only intervened in the hobbit because they noticed a bit of flame and a commotion and went to see what was going on and they only intervened in the battle at the gate of mordor because they were ordered to by manwe (or thats the theory anyway).
The main reason I probably won't read the game of thrones books is because I want to relax reading a book, game of thrones seems too like a medieval history book that I see everyday in college.

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Thursday 24th April 2014
quotequote all
confucuis said:
It's not that they couldn't or were afraid to its that they saw the no point in it. The eagles were they're own race with their own kingdom in the skies. As far as I know they had a direct link to Manwe (the most powerful demi-God, Erus second in command) and could interact with him. A bit like Tom Bombadil they weren't worried about the conflicts that affected men with Sauron and didn't view them as important. They only intervened in the hobbit because they noticed a bit of flame and a commotion and went to see what was going on and they only intervened in the battle at the gate of mordor because they were ordered to by manwe (or thats the theory anyway).
The main reason I probably won't read the game of thrones books is because I want to relax reading a book, game of thrones seems too like a medieval history book that I see everyday in college.
That is another reason, but even if they had attempted it, they still couldn't.
They intervened in the Battle of Five Armies because they noticed the orc build-up in the mountains and knew trouble was coming and it would make sense to investigate.
I cannot recall a specific reason why they turned up at the Battle of the Morannon. I suppose a desperate call from Manwë or Gandalf might have done it, or they could have been keeping tabs from events from afar, as they were known to do.

BlackST

9,079 posts

164 months

Thursday 24th April 2014
quotequote all
jesusbuiltmycar said:
Halb said:
Ahh right yeah, Sansa leaves the Eyrie but is still in the Vale. I vaguely recall the betrothal but not the reveal. I intend to reread the books after the fourth series.

Bran will be come the tree-man superseer, and possibly take very little direct action in the story. Rickon will be become the heir by the laws of the land, I reckon he'll survive.

Jon will come back, depends how much of him comes back. If the theories on his warg abilities helping to retain 100% of himself are true. Dondarrion slowly 'lost himself', while the gap was so long for Cat that all that was able to come back was her anger and thirst for vengeance.

Coldhands a warg? Interesting, not thought of that. Possibly when Benjen died his spirit leapt into a wight's body? Or when he actually died his spirit was able to maintain control over himself instead of becoming a zombie under the control of the White Walkers?
Rickon is on Skagos and the Onion Knight is going to be looking for him.

Is Jon dead? ADWD did not explicitly say he dies, just he "blacked out" afetr multiple stab wounds.
Very injured but not necessarily dead...
I've just finished A Dance with Dragons.
I'm not sure if Jon is dead.

Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger's hilt and wretched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. "Ghost," he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end.
When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold...

My thoughts.
Why was the wound smoking?
Why didn't he feel the fourth knife?

Part of me thinks, did he warg into Ghost? Another part of me thinks that he is dead and will be revived by Melisandre. The last part of me thinks that he isn't actually dead.

Can't see the new book coming out in the next 2 years. A bit guttered really.

richtea78

5,574 posts

157 months

Friday 25th April 2014
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Heres me theory. The wound wasnt smoking, it was steaming. Its cold at the wall. The blood is warm, it might steam. That sounds plausible. He didnt feel the 4th wound as he had already warged into Ghost by that point. His body will be resurrected by Melisandre at which point he will warg back from being Ghost into his body.

lemmingjames

7,433 posts

203 months

Friday 25th April 2014
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I wonder if Jon is one of Roberts bds or does the time line not fit?