Thoughts on job interview decisions
Discussion
Wife applied for a job at work.
Two people went for it.
Core competencies are much the same, both same degree, been there same number of years. Pretty equal. Both good friends too.
Work is science based, laboratory supervision type role.
I think the management realised it was going to be hard to separate the two, so devised a presentation as well as the interview. The presentation was to assume you were reporting as a 3rd party based on an interview with yourself, for an industry magazine. A few key points were to be covered. Not sure why they used that angle. Following instructions maybe? Bit of a tentative link for a scientist dealing with absolutes in the current environment.
In the end my wife didn't get the job. Tough luck and all.
The thing is I asked her to ask why she lost out, and she was told it was because her presentation wasn't as good. The winner had used more clip-art in power-point, and basically been a bit more creative with the presentation of the information using metaphors about motivation that were maybe more well thought out.
I'm of the mind that if the metric used in a science environment to determine the ideal candidate is the one who can be more creative in message delivery, then I wouldn't see it as a bad thing I didn't get the job. If you want to be a creative powerhouse in life, you follow a creative career. If you want to be a scientist, you do bloody good science work...
What do other people think?
I was tempted to think I should have helped her with her presentation a great deal more, to basically go through it all and make it look really flashy, and give it a consistent message (like what I'd do at work) but the reason I didn't was integrity and purpose.
Should a scientist be expected to be able to be visually creative as they progress in a scientific career? Would you be kicking yourself for losing out on something like that?
Going back to my civil engineering days at university, what mattered was content and accuracy in a scientific/engineering assessment environment. I don't think any weight was given to being visually creative beyond just laying out the data effectively to good standards.
Hmmmm
Thanks for any thoughts
Dave
Two people went for it.
Core competencies are much the same, both same degree, been there same number of years. Pretty equal. Both good friends too.
Work is science based, laboratory supervision type role.
I think the management realised it was going to be hard to separate the two, so devised a presentation as well as the interview. The presentation was to assume you were reporting as a 3rd party based on an interview with yourself, for an industry magazine. A few key points were to be covered. Not sure why they used that angle. Following instructions maybe? Bit of a tentative link for a scientist dealing with absolutes in the current environment.
In the end my wife didn't get the job. Tough luck and all.
The thing is I asked her to ask why she lost out, and she was told it was because her presentation wasn't as good. The winner had used more clip-art in power-point, and basically been a bit more creative with the presentation of the information using metaphors about motivation that were maybe more well thought out.
I'm of the mind that if the metric used in a science environment to determine the ideal candidate is the one who can be more creative in message delivery, then I wouldn't see it as a bad thing I didn't get the job. If you want to be a creative powerhouse in life, you follow a creative career. If you want to be a scientist, you do bloody good science work...
What do other people think?
I was tempted to think I should have helped her with her presentation a great deal more, to basically go through it all and make it look really flashy, and give it a consistent message (like what I'd do at work) but the reason I didn't was integrity and purpose.
Should a scientist be expected to be able to be visually creative as they progress in a scientific career? Would you be kicking yourself for losing out on something like that?
Going back to my civil engineering days at university, what mattered was content and accuracy in a scientific/engineering assessment environment. I don't think any weight was given to being visually creative beyond just laying out the data effectively to good standards.
Hmmmm
Thanks for any thoughts
Dave
Not much to go on and it's obviously your interpretation of the facts, but I'd not focus just on the clip art but on the metaphors.
As part of my job I have to explain technical concepts to non technical people. This uses a lot of metaphors to get the ideas across.
This may be where the difference lies, your wife assumed a too high level of understanding of the base concepts involved. The other candidate presented the ideas in a better way.
Ultimately though, they must just have liked the other lady more.
As part of my job I have to explain technical concepts to non technical people. This uses a lot of metaphors to get the ideas across.
This may be where the difference lies, your wife assumed a too high level of understanding of the base concepts involved. The other candidate presented the ideas in a better way.
Ultimately though, they must just have liked the other lady more.
I think when you get right to the top of any discipline, creativity is very important. You probably think of science as GCSE book learning, but when you think about, for example, F1 engineers (who obviously do a very 'sciency' job), you need to be creative to be at the top of your game. I haven't made my point very well but hopefully you can see where I"m coming from.
you say they were pretty much equal, and that they were already struggling to decide between the 2.
A flashier presentation, especially as the presentation was an additional task designed to differentiate, may just have been enough.
If all other things are equal, you are left looking for differences that may not bear any relevance to the role.
A flashier presentation, especially as the presentation was an additional task designed to differentiate, may just have been enough.
If all other things are equal, you are left looking for differences that may not bear any relevance to the role.
The person with all the relevant skills but with an added bonus of being creative and presenting things well got the job. Which part of this isn't fair?
Not nice for your OH losing out but if the roles were reversed and your OH had the better presentation would you still have the same opinion of what's relevant or not?
Not nice for your OH losing out but if the roles were reversed and your OH had the better presentation would you still have the same opinion of what's relevant or not?
Bullett said:
Ultimately though, they must just have liked the other lady more.
This is probably closer to the truth. Not necessarily liked, but possibly more of a strategic fit for the organisation and in the image of those doing the appointing. At that level this is how human nature reacts.Creativity is important I will agree, but I'm not sure the design process element of creativity transfers to the scientific disciplines quite so naturally and as much as you would expect.
I like to think I straddle the two and very little from one feels to be useful to the other at extremes. There is of course a wishy washy middle ground, but I'm not sure that is measurable from doing a presentation, especially one that may have been influenced from all over the shop (for instance, my wife could have easily let me do her whole presentation and no one would have known)
A few friends have asked why they didn't just have a test to help differentiate them. Maybe something lab/problem based to catch them out... something at least that would fairly measure the difference between the two.
But then I guess the decision may well have been the other person in any case for reasons they won't disclose.
I'm positive about it despite my wife being a bit down. I think it's a new lesson to learn, learn to let go.
I think after 10yrs she needs to show that she CAN leave if she isn't happy, and maybe that will serve as a strength in future for her own career.
She was intending to find a new job, and was looking, this job promotion caught her attention, but hopefully not getting it will be motivation to actual see through the job change.
Always lots of factors, I probably shouldn't say too much... but as with any company if you bend over backwards too much, they will happily let you keep doing it. I wonder if the company just thinks she is cheap and skilled and doesn't leave despite the hard work and not moving up the corporate ladder. Why promote?
Dave
I like to think I straddle the two and very little from one feels to be useful to the other at extremes. There is of course a wishy washy middle ground, but I'm not sure that is measurable from doing a presentation, especially one that may have been influenced from all over the shop (for instance, my wife could have easily let me do her whole presentation and no one would have known)
A few friends have asked why they didn't just have a test to help differentiate them. Maybe something lab/problem based to catch them out... something at least that would fairly measure the difference between the two.
But then I guess the decision may well have been the other person in any case for reasons they won't disclose.
I'm positive about it despite my wife being a bit down. I think it's a new lesson to learn, learn to let go.
I think after 10yrs she needs to show that she CAN leave if she isn't happy, and maybe that will serve as a strength in future for her own career.
She was intending to find a new job, and was looking, this job promotion caught her attention, but hopefully not getting it will be motivation to actual see through the job change.
Always lots of factors, I probably shouldn't say too much... but as with any company if you bend over backwards too much, they will happily let you keep doing it. I wonder if the company just thinks she is cheap and skilled and doesn't leave despite the hard work and not moving up the corporate ladder. Why promote?
Dave
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