Engineered rule bending
Discussion
awesome thread
minor though interesting
2001
There was an event similar to the thundersprint in the Northwest
anyhoo, Ducati had a female "racer" they where supporting
And my Aunt, Jude Cooper had just got her 996 (she's been riding since before she was legal and is a very fast smoooooth rider)
So, they're at this event, Ducati girl has a monster
And my aunt keeps beating the Ducati girl.
So Ducati give their girl a 996R, Jude still beats here.
Ducati give their girl the full spec BSB bike, beats Jude but only just
big teams don't like to loose.
minor though interesting
2001
There was an event similar to the thundersprint in the Northwest
anyhoo, Ducati had a female "racer" they where supporting
And my Aunt, Jude Cooper had just got her 996 (she's been riding since before she was legal and is a very fast smoooooth rider)
So, they're at this event, Ducati girl has a monster
And my aunt keeps beating the Ducati girl.
So Ducati give their girl a 996R, Jude still beats here.
Ducati give their girl the full spec BSB bike, beats Jude but only just
big teams don't like to loose.
Allyc85 said:
I believe one of the front runners in the BTRDA rally championship was accused of runnning Moto Gp fuel and an over sized turbo restrictor in his Focus this year. Never heard any more on the matter, and the better man won any way 
I was on that event and can remember the driver of a certain other car which may or may not be linked to a drink manufacturer grumbling about it at the end of a stage.It may or may not be true that many, if not all of the WRC cars have a 'noise test mode' which allows the rev counter to show the correct value at idle and red line but 'adjusts' itself in the mid range rpm to allow the car to be revving significantly lower than indicated by the rev counter and hence quieter.
I've heard it from a few involved directly in the '94 Benetton that they were categorically running Traction Control the year after it was banned in '93. Ayrton Senna was convinced that year they were, as he simply could't keep up with Schumacher at the start, or exiting tight corners. This rule bending, and the increased political nature of F1 seemed to really get to Senna that year, and as we know, was probably a contributing factor to the stress he felt at that fateful race at Imola.
Some more detail on the Toyota GTOne from an ex colleague of mine who worked for TMD. As mentioned, it had to be a homologated road car, and it was stipulated that it must have a 'boot'. The rules however, didn't state that it needed to be accessible, so they stuck it right in the middle of the monocoque with no way of getting to it. Whilst fairly unhappy, the FIA couldn't really object as it met the rules. Martin Brundle did much of the original testing on the car, but due to their two year ban, they weren't allowed to enter any races, or indeed any official tests. An enterprising member of the team, realised they could use the homologation rules and location (Cologne) to their advantage and the prototype car would be run late at night on the Autobahn at full speed....with 'plates on!
There was a lot of discussion from Racecar Engineering this year about the legality of the Toyota LMP1 rear wing. It seems they've been running a clever mechanism which reduces the angle of attack of the rear wing (hence reducing drag) but still meets the FIA mandated static load tests. There's a very in-depth discussion on the issue with lots of videos and images here:
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/RCELeMans2014.html
Other ones that had come to mind were the TWR Volvo engine and it's split head, and the usual urban legend ones about the long fuel hose. There are lots of very clever ways of cheating though! I would say the most prevalent things in 'normal' motorsport are the use of extra engine ECUs and modifications to things like crank sensors, water temp sensors and boost control. I for one, would not like to win through anything I felt was even remotely cheating. I'd much rather win through ability, race craft or racing!
Some more detail on the Toyota GTOne from an ex colleague of mine who worked for TMD. As mentioned, it had to be a homologated road car, and it was stipulated that it must have a 'boot'. The rules however, didn't state that it needed to be accessible, so they stuck it right in the middle of the monocoque with no way of getting to it. Whilst fairly unhappy, the FIA couldn't really object as it met the rules. Martin Brundle did much of the original testing on the car, but due to their two year ban, they weren't allowed to enter any races, or indeed any official tests. An enterprising member of the team, realised they could use the homologation rules and location (Cologne) to their advantage and the prototype car would be run late at night on the Autobahn at full speed....with 'plates on!
There was a lot of discussion from Racecar Engineering this year about the legality of the Toyota LMP1 rear wing. It seems they've been running a clever mechanism which reduces the angle of attack of the rear wing (hence reducing drag) but still meets the FIA mandated static load tests. There's a very in-depth discussion on the issue with lots of videos and images here:
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/RCELeMans2014.html
Other ones that had come to mind were the TWR Volvo engine and it's split head, and the usual urban legend ones about the long fuel hose. There are lots of very clever ways of cheating though! I would say the most prevalent things in 'normal' motorsport are the use of extra engine ECUs and modifications to things like crank sensors, water temp sensors and boost control. I for one, would not like to win through anything I felt was even remotely cheating. I'd much rather win through ability, race craft or racing!
jsf said:
Whilst tracing through the wiring on a front running 70's Le Mans car during it's restoration, I found one switch on the dash that switched the brake lights on, so the driver could trick the following drivers into thinking they were braking earlier than they actually were.
The opposite used to be a 'standard' mod on a lot of night event (road rallying) cars back in the 70/80's - a switch to prevent the brake lights coming on should you be being caught on 'stage'.Or so I've been told anyway ................
BB
I've heard stories that they were occasionally used on road rallies when being chased by police cars back in the olden days.
I know of one particular chap who had the blue lights gaining on him due to some driving indiscretion further back up the road so switched off the rear lights coming into a tight corner and the plod went straight on into a field as spotted by the next car who came along a minute later...
I know of one particular chap who had the blue lights gaining on him due to some driving indiscretion further back up the road so switched off the rear lights coming into a tight corner and the plod went straight on into a field as spotted by the next car who came along a minute later...
RacerMike said:
I've heard it from a few involved directly in the '94 Benetton that they were categorically running Traction Control the year after it was banned in '93. Ayrton Senna was convinced that year they were, as he simply could't keep up with Schumacher at the start, or exiting tight corners. This rule bending, and the increased political nature of F1 seemed to really get to Senna that year, and as we know, was probably a contributing factor to the stress he felt at that fateful race at Imola.
!
Hmmm. Everybody and his dog has spread rumours of that but no one has any proof. You'd think it would be out by now.......!
As for its effect on Senna, he only ran 1 race and a few odd laps in that year. The first race he was quickest and only lost to Schumacher in the pit stop. The second race he was quickest in qualifying but was taken out on the first lap and we all know what happened in the third race.
Very unlikely that any psychological affect could have taken place. In any case the Williams of those years were the most technically advanced on the grid, the 15C once being described as the most advanced F1 car ever, and Williams were not immune from accusations of cheating so I really can't see Senna being so affected.
IanUAE said:
In the good old days of Sportscar racing (956 / 962 etc) didn't the ruling body ban changing certain parts of the cars (gearboxes?) etc during the race. So teams would leave a "replacement part" in the oil / lubricant catching container, remove the broken part, drop it in the container and fit the new part?
Cannot think of the team / teams off the top of my head.
That was also done in the early days of NASCAR when cams were taken out for inspectionCannot think of the team / teams off the top of my head.
REALIST123 said:
In any case the Williams of those years were the most technically advanced on the grid, the 15C once being described as the most advanced F1 car ever, and Williams were not immune from accusations of cheating so I really can't see Senna being so affected.
But the FW16 was a very different animal, with passive suspension and an, at that point in the season, aero deficit / imbalance. The car wasn't that great to drive at that point in the season, apparently.So actually I think those things did contribute to senna being less than settled and more determined to beat Schumacher.
AMD87 said:
DeuxCentCinq said:
Great thread, just read it all the way through again, but still no mention of these "infamous sun visors" on Volvos from page 1. And I can't find them on the Googles either. Anyone?
It came up recently in a Shannon's legends of Motorsport programme Was it a new ECU map activated by sun visors or something?
DeuxCentCinq said:
AMD87 said:
DeuxCentCinq said:
Great thread, just read it all the way through again, but still no mention of these "infamous sun visors" on Volvos from page 1. And I can't find them on the Googles either. Anyone?
It came up recently in a Shannon's legends of Motorsport programme Was it a new ECU map activated by sun visors or something?
"ex-TWR mechanic who told the following story about the TWR Volvos of ETC fame. The boost system was rigged up to the drivers sun visor so that it could be adjusted "on track" by the angle of the visor, and the brake bias could be altered by rotating the rev counter bezel. Never caught apparently - which makes it un-provable - but they were indecently fast in a straight line IIRC.
"
rev-erend said:
Quote from a thread on Tom Walkinshaw:
"ex-TWR mechanic who told the following story about the TWR Volvos of ETC fame. The boost system was rigged up to the drivers sun visor so that it could be adjusted "on track" by the angle of the visor, and the brake bias could be altered by rotating the rev counter bezel. Never caught apparently - which makes it un-provable - but they were indecently fast in a straight line IIRC.
"
Gotta be B*ll*ocks sorry. Why would you run the risk of the Srutes asking "why are there wires going to the sun visor" when you could just arrange for any combination of already existing switches to enter the "cheat mode"??? (ie heated windcreen & fan 3 or whatever etc etc)"ex-TWR mechanic who told the following story about the TWR Volvos of ETC fame. The boost system was rigged up to the drivers sun visor so that it could be adjusted "on track" by the angle of the visor, and the brake bias could be altered by rotating the rev counter bezel. Never caught apparently - which makes it un-provable - but they were indecently fast in a straight line IIRC.
"
Max_Torque said:
Gotta be B*ll*ocks sorry. Why would you run the risk of the Srutes asking "why are there wires going to the sun visor" when you could just arrange for any combination of already existing switches to enter the "cheat mode"??? (ie heated windcreen & fan 3 or whatever etc etc)
Vanity light. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boost_controller#Ma...
RacerMike said:
There was a lot of discussion from Racecar Engineering this year about the legality of the Toyota LMP1 rear wing. It seems they've been running a clever mechanism which reduces the angle of attack of the rear wing (hence reducing drag) but still meets the FIA mandated static load tests. There's a very in-depth discussion on the issue with lots of videos and images here:
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/RCELeMans2014.html
I am fairly sure that's what Red Bull were finally busted for doing with their front wing this season too (changing the pitch at speed).http://www.mulsannescorner.com/RCELeMans2014.html
Whoever recommended this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00L8W6Z4Y?psc=...
Great advice. I'm already two thirds of the way through it, and I'm not even that into motorbikes.
Great advice. I'm already two thirds of the way through it, and I'm not even that into motorbikes.
The old Le Mans trick (before modern technology and tamper-proof seals) - ACO rules prevented various engine ancillaries/gearbox parts from being replaced during the race.
Your hobbled car pulls into the pits, the failed part is removed, a mechanic busily dunks the item in a large tank of oil/degreasant and then theatrically lifts it out with a triumphant grin . After a swift check over on the bench the part is returned to the car and miraculously it performs perfectly for the remainder of the 24 Hrs.
The tank is quietly returned to the team transporter and the failed part is spirited away. In the meantime the brand new replacement part that had been deposited in the tank prior to the pit stop enjoys its moment of glory...
Your hobbled car pulls into the pits, the failed part is removed, a mechanic busily dunks the item in a large tank of oil/degreasant and then theatrically lifts it out with a triumphant grin . After a swift check over on the bench the part is returned to the car and miraculously it performs perfectly for the remainder of the 24 Hrs.
The tank is quietly returned to the team transporter and the failed part is spirited away. In the meantime the brand new replacement part that had been deposited in the tank prior to the pit stop enjoys its moment of glory...
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