Let's talk about....

[Robmarriott]

Front (or wrong) wheel drive drag racing.

Now, for those of you unfamiliar with the record, I believe it currently stands at 9.28 seconds in the UK in a slightly more potent than standard Vauxhall Tigra.

What I want to know is how the guys in the US are able to go so much quicker?

Is it down to regulations allowing car specs to differ vastly from the UK racers' or something else?

Also, I'm keen to give the whole thing a go in the next year or so, but need a car to begin with, if you were starting fresh, what would you go for as a starting point? I can think of a few options, but would like to know the general concensus on here too.

[Rat_Fink_67]

Robmarriott said:

Front (or wrong) wheel drive drag racing.

Now, for those of you unfamiliar with the record, I believe it currently stands at 9.28 seconds in the UK in a slightly more potent than standard Vauxhall Tigra.

What I want to know is how the guys in the US are able to go so much quicker?

Nothing more than experience (track time) and budget really I'd say. During the big "sport compact" revolution in the States a few years ago, the big players that were running low 7's and 200mph were all factory supported in some way, shape or form. GM & Toyota threw a lot of money at it as I recall. The chassis were very different to what I've seen used over here too, the Americans used full tube cars using a lot of Pro Stock tech, with engines mounted longitudinally way in front of the front wheels for traction. I imagine they didn't weigh a great deal either.

Robmarriott said:

if you were starting fresh, what would you go for as a starting point? I can think of a few options, but would like to know the general concensus on here too.

Me personally? I'd weld the steering up and drive it backwards, I'm not much of an advocate for FWD drag racing I'm afraid.

[Benni]

9.28 would be an awfully quick FWD, not only in britain but also on a european scale,
as the european FWD best is a 9.23, see on woken.se .

Who ran it, where and when ?

[MotorPsycho]

That pretty much sums up the difference.

[Robmarriott]

Ok, slight error on my part, it's 9.86 not 9.28 ops:

[Benni]

Hi Rob, no harm done, I was just very surprised.
Any 9 with a FWD is not shabby, do you have specs/links to the car ?

If you want to go fast, my suggestion would be a Golf Mk 1 or 2 with a VR6 Turbo
or an 1.8 4cyl Turbo, both can be boosted to +500hp quite "easily" if you have knowledge and wallet.
The tricky part is the drivetrain, there are some sports clutches that withstand the power,
but the transmission is the weak link in high-powered VWs.
Alternative gears are available from scandinavia or Quaife, they are custom-made and costly.
Driveshafts & diffs are also critical, especially on prepped surfaces,
and have to be replaced with items that are reinforced.

All in all, it is much more costly to build a 9second FWD than a equally quick (V-8) RWD,
but if you can face the challenge the results are more satisfying, I wish you success with your project.

[Robmarriott]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEwowyJW9ys&fea...

That's the record run, not a lot of spec about that I know of, but I know it was making upwards of 700bhp, still uses an h pattern box and is road legal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xzE6oIxGKY&fea...

That was a liner failure at the top end, I think

As for your suggestions of cars, I was thinking much the same, with the VR6, never though anything of the 1.8t and the 6 pot seems to be capable of making more power more easily.

The gearbox, some of the FWD VW gearboxes are fairly strong, but the clutch I agree with, that's not going to be easy to sort.

Edited by Robmarriott on Friday 8th July 09:07

[MotorPsycho]

Couple of rapid 1.8 20v turbo motors running over here, Andy Waite's mk1 Golf is a monster, running 4wd Haldex system down into the 9.8s with a lot more to come, on Toyo R888s as well! James Hodson's mk2 running FWD with VW box and is road legal except the slicks, regular 10 second runner.

For converted road cars its some very stout numbers, go fullon FWD race car like the US Sport Compact and its a different world. FWD drag racing doesn't really interest me per se, but I'm a VW lover so pay attention to Andy and James' cars

[tony g]

If you look at Toyota MR2 's that can make great power and run 9's (not many) and 10's (lots of them) it may be surprising to know that they run the standard gearboxes. Now I know thats RWD but if you then go for a celica (non gt4) that front wheel drive and use the Mr2 box you can save a lot of money and spend it on the engine instead
The motors are capable of big (500+) power when built nicely.
Celicas wont be as light as a golf but with a bit of surgery i dont see why it couldnt be made a lot lighter. As for VW boxes I have built quite a few 6 speeds and they are WEAK as standard and i wouldnt use one if it was free. Just my opinion hth.

Tony

[Jon C]

MotorPsycho said:

That pretty much sums up the difference.

Would that have problems in staging? With the rollout and stuff. I certainly cant see deep or shallow staging being an option

[NitroWars]

I can see that there may well be problems trying to deep stage but can't think of any by shallow staging - Plenty of rollout so ETs will be good (60 foots will be amazing)! ETA The rollout should not be that much different to a doorslammer so I do not think that there will be guard beam issues...

As you know Jon, I believe there are a lot of racers that do not consider their staging to be of importance. I seem to remember one Pro class category car deepstaging during qualifying at the Main Event...

Edited by NitroWars on Monday 18th July 14:56

[MajorLucky]

i've loved every minute of playing FWD, unfortunatly after lots of engine damage im forced to give up my dream, and do it the easy way (Rwd)

i try to keep the records updated

Bjorn does indeed hold the current European record,

1. Björn Holmberg (SWE) - Nissan Cherry - 9.354@248.16 > Kjula Dragway
2. Witek - Honda Civic Coupe - 9.439@244.19 > Wittstock
3. Robert Uhr (SWE) - Saab 9-3 - 9.602@243.15 > Orsa
4. Boba (GER) - VW Polo - 9.617@236.67 > Bitburg
5. Sandor (HUN) - Honda Civic Coupe - 9.665@241.45 > Kunmadaras
6. Nikos Gasparatos (GRE) - Honda Civic - 9.726@240.84 > Polykastro
7. Guy Chamberlain (ENG) - Honda Civic - 9.769@151mph > Santa Pod
8. Szabyk (HUN) - Ford Fiesta - 9.789@237.67 > Kiskunlachaza
9. Andy Speck (ENG) Vauxhall Tigra - 9.86@148 > Santa Pod
10. Adam Buckley (ENG)Honda Civic - 9.95@145 > Santa Pod
11. Takis Vouros (GRE) - Fiat Uno - 9.977@235.07 > Polykastro

then there are a number of 10 second cars

One of the main reasons we are so far behind in the uk is, lets be honest the Honda scene is massive, they have the parts and mainly the have the Transmission to do it. BUT here in the uk we have the JDS series where the cars are limited to a minumum weight. This is what is holding up there progress
Hopefully they will slowly make there way into mainstream drag racing and enter classes like Pro ET, where they can drop the weight and make some records.


OP, if your after a rolling shell my VW Golf is now for sale, partially
tubed, with fibreglass front. Only weighs 700kgs, save a lot of money!! Just drop a motor in it and chase them down

There is a big meeting of all the fastest fwd cars coming up very soon
http://www.outlawshootout.co.uk/

but yet again read the rules and see, minimum weights, grr

Edited by MajorLucky on Tuesday 30th August 21:02

[Robmarriott]

What do you want for it Luke?

[MajorLucky]

3k, rolling on steels

but can do a deal with the slicks (someone has said they want them but no money has exchanged yet) and other stuff that might take your fancy


[e-mail] - talk to me

[MajorLucky]

actually fingers crossed now sold

but Robert Uhr from sweden is selling his full tubed chassis Saab 93

on facebook search for

SAAB 9-3 GTRSS PRO-FWD FOR SALE

[MajorLucky]

Rob mines available still now

[MajorLucky]

1. Björn Holmberg (SWE) - Nissan Cherry - 9.354@248.16kph > Kjula Dragway
2. Witek - Honda Civic Coupe - 9.439@244.19kph > Wittstock
3. Robert Uhr (SWE) - Saab 9-3 - 9.602@243.15kph > Orsa
4. Boba (GER) - VW Polo - 9.617@236.67kph > Bitburg
5. Sandor (HUN) - Honda Civic Coupe - 9.665@241.45kph > Kunmadaras
6. Nikos Gasparatos (GRE) - Honda Civic - 9.726@240.84kph > Polykastro
7. Guy Chamberlain (ENG) - Honda Civic - 9.769@151mph > Santa Pod
8. Szabyk (HUN) - Ford Fiesta - 9.789@237.67kph > Kiskunlachaza
9. Andy Speck (ENG) Vauxhall Tigra - 9.86@148mph > Santa Pod
10. Kalle Uhr (SWE) - Opel Corsa - 9.91@ 229kpm > Kjula Dragway
11. Adam Buckley (ENG)Honda Civic - 9.95@145mph > Santa Pod
12. Takis Vouros (GRE) - Fiat Uno - 9.977@235.07kph > Polykastro


little update, Guy moved up to 7th at rotorstock and Brother of Robert Uhr, Kalle has joined the 9 second crew

Edited by MajorLucky on Tuesday 30th August 21:25

[Robmarriott]

Luke, thanks for the offer of yours but it's a little more than I can afford right now, getting married in 3 weeks and it's costing a little more than planned lol!

The Corsa of Kalle Uhr's? is that the insane wide bodied one with a Saab engine?

[MajorLucky]

yeah thats the one,

we've got a mario thou coming to pod from germany this wkend for VW Action, his polo has ran 10.2 at bitburg so hopefully will crack a 9 on a proper strip

[Benni]

MajorLucky said:

yeah thats the one,

we've got a mario thou coming to pod from germany this wkend for VW Action, his polo has ran 10.2 at bitburg so hopefully will crack a 9 on a proper strip

Now that´s a surprise, Mario "Mayo" Thau will either crack the 9s or another tranny,

although his new one is supposed to be bullet-proof, so fingers crossed.

Mario will not only try to do his best but -I think- will take a good look at the way racing is handled at SPR,

because he is one of the organizers behind a temporary airport Drag Strip in eastern Germany.

They bought a Kath Bros. timing -same as in Drachten- and will even try to prep the track for their finals in October.

P.S.: Bitburg is very proper for an unprepped taxiway, proved by Boba´s FWD 9,6

and a track record of 8,31 by german SE Champ Micha Vogt in his ProCharged Bel Air.

I hope you have good weather and fast racing, take a look at the other german Guido

with his ProCharged "super sano" silver SP/ET Manta B looking for mid-8s or even less.