Low drag E-typesl
Discussion
Question from a thickie.
I went to the silverstone classic without really doing my E-type homework and now i am back home i have been going through the pictures i took trying to figure out what they are of!
I took this picture on the saturday by which time i was already 'E-typed out' and didnt really pay much attention.
I know its a racing E-type but is it one of the 12 special low drag ones?
Regards
Peter
I went to the silverstone classic without really doing my E-type homework and now i am back home i have been going through the pictures i took trying to figure out what they are of!
I took this picture on the saturday by which time i was already 'E-typed out' and didnt really pay much attention.
I know its a racing E-type but is it one of the 12 special low drag ones?
Regards
Peter
OK. Since you seem interested in the truth, it's as follows.
There was only one "Low Drag" E-Type made in the 1960's, and that was heavily crashed early in its life.
It has only recently been fully restored, and was at the Silverstone Classic, see picture here.
A number of "continuation" replicas have been made in recent years, of which the one you photographed is one.
There were 12 original "Light Weight" E-Types also made in the 1960's, which look more like a standard car.
Many more "continuation" replicas of this design have been made in recent years eg. the car that won the E-Type race at Silverstone.
Hope that helps.
There was only one "Low Drag" E-Type made in the 1960's, and that was heavily crashed early in its life.
It has only recently been fully restored, and was at the Silverstone Classic, see picture here.
A number of "continuation" replicas have been made in recent years, of which the one you photographed is one.
There were 12 original "Light Weight" E-Types also made in the 1960's, which look more like a standard car.
Many more "continuation" replicas of this design have been made in recent years eg. the car that won the E-Type race at Silverstone.
Hope that helps.
dwrigh13 said:
OK. Since you seem interested in the truth, it's as follows.
There was only one "Low Drag" E-Type made in the 1960's, and that was heavily crashed early in its life.
It has only recently been fully restored, and was at the Silverstone Classic, see picture here.
Er, not so. There were three lowdrag E-types, the Lindner/Nocker (which was crashed at Montlhery with the loss of five lives and which has been rebuilt by Peter Neumark), then there is CUT 7, the Dick Protheroe car that belonged to Lord Cowdray for many years and which now belongs to Sean Lynn, and thirdly the Samir Klat long nose Lumsden/Sargent car, 49 FXN which now belongs to Rob Warburton of the Warburton's bread family. There are many replicas around, the above being a copy of the Lindner/Nocker car. Easy to tell since the roof is more domed and there are louvres on the off-side side rear wing. The best replicas are built by RS Panels in Nuneaton, who rebuilt CUT 7 in 1990 for the Vesty (Dewhirsts Butchers) family and made a buck of the car to make exact replicas and who also have built proper copies of the Lindner/Nocker and now a copy of the Samir Klat one too. It was on display in the old pits at Silverstone and Peter Sargent was there discussing it. Lynx also built some fine replicas too, and both the RS Panels and Lynx cars are eligible for FIA papers to race. Here's a photo of Peter Sargent with the replica of his car:-There was only one "Low Drag" E-Type made in the 1960's, and that was heavily crashed early in its life.
It has only recently been fully restored, and was at the Silverstone Classic, see picture here.
And here's a photo of a Lindner/Nocker replica which was on the JEC stand:-
CUT 7 was in the USA at the time, but here's a photo of it taken years back at the first Revival in 1998
Edited by lowdrag on Sunday 7th August 07:49
Excellent post by Lowdrag and absolutely correct.
RS panels are the boys.
In 50 odd years of E type admiration I have only seen a small handful of genuine low drag originals and a few genuine Flat Floor models.
But some of the E type creations that emulate these rare originals I have seen have been better cars than the originals.
In my opinion.
Certainly better finished and detailed.
And I am old enough to have seen and climbed about the original originals!
Very very difficult to tell unless as Lowdrag you know the cars.
Enjoyable and interesting all the same.
RS panels are the boys.
In 50 odd years of E type admiration I have only seen a small handful of genuine low drag originals and a few genuine Flat Floor models.
But some of the E type creations that emulate these rare originals I have seen have been better cars than the originals.
In my opinion.
Certainly better finished and detailed.
And I am old enough to have seen and climbed about the original originals!
Very very difficult to tell unless as Lowdrag you know the cars.
Enjoyable and interesting all the same.
E31Shrew said:
'Recreation' on ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1967-JAGUAR-E-TYPE-LOW-D...
A snip at £249,995.00http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1967-JAGUAR-E-TYPE-LOW-D...
Interestingly, Nigel Thorley wrote about the "one and only low drag lightweight E-type" at some length in the June 2011 edition of the JEC magazine, quoting various authors, who are recognized for their expertise and research.
He specifically reports that 4868 WK "became the most powerful Jaguar the Browns Lane Competition Department had produced and also the last competition car they prepared". Further that "Malcolm Sayer himself in 1964 designed the special one off low-drag coupe around a 1963 lightweight car owned and campaigned by the Lindner/Nocker partnership.
CUT 7 is a number that has been seen on several E-types of differing pedigree over the years.
He specifically reports that 4868 WK "became the most powerful Jaguar the Browns Lane Competition Department had produced and also the last competition car they prepared". Further that "Malcolm Sayer himself in 1964 designed the special one off low-drag coupe around a 1963 lightweight car owned and campaigned by the Lindner/Nocker partnership.
CUT 7 is a number that has been seen on several E-types of differing pedigree over the years.
In one way you are right, but mostly wrong I'm afraid, as Nigel well knows and possibly - I've not read the article - he didn't make the position completely clear. Yes, there is only one actual lightweight lowdrag because the Lindner/Nocker has an alloy tub, the others being steel.
The Lindner/Nocker car is the only low drag E-type made at the factory. That's also the difference. CUT 7 and 49 FXN were developed from roadsters but not built at Browns Lane. There are definitively three lowdrag coupés, and for a reproduction today you have RS Panels, Simon Dunford, or perhaps Rod Tempero in New Zealand. One was built here at Le Mans too, and is superb. However, if you don't want to wait then have a look here for one of the best on the market:-
http://www.oldracingcar.co.uk/products/lynx-lindne...
I doubt you'll get any change from £250,000 on this one, but the other Brian Wingfield car is, IMHO, overpriced and he is flying a kite. Mind you Brian - or Deetype Ltd as he traded - made some damned good cars.
The Lindner/Nocker car is the only low drag E-type made at the factory. That's also the difference. CUT 7 and 49 FXN were developed from roadsters but not built at Browns Lane. There are definitively three lowdrag coupés, and for a reproduction today you have RS Panels, Simon Dunford, or perhaps Rod Tempero in New Zealand. One was built here at Le Mans too, and is superb. However, if you don't want to wait then have a look here for one of the best on the market:-
http://www.oldracingcar.co.uk/products/lynx-lindne...
I doubt you'll get any change from £250,000 on this one, but the other Brian Wingfield car is, IMHO, overpriced and he is flying a kite. Mind you Brian - or Deetype Ltd as he traded - made some damned good cars.
Edited by lowdrag on Monday 8th August 13:17
Funny that!!! I believe that makes me right in all respects - only one factory original Low-drag E-type then?
I'm sure that Jaguar and especially Malcolm Sayer would have been flattered to be copied, but copies they surely are in all senses of the word, even if they had to scrap an E-type in the process to get a correct chassis number.
I believe that I saw at least 4 copies being raced at the Silverstone Classic by the way.
I'm sure that Jaguar and especially Malcolm Sayer would have been flattered to be copied, but copies they surely are in all senses of the word, even if they had to scrap an E-type in the process to get a correct chassis number.
I believe that I saw at least 4 copies being raced at the Silverstone Classic by the way.
I give up, I really do. I think that if you saw Sean Lynn, a very respected racing driver who has a stable of top cars including a Cobra, GT40, Lister Knobbly as well as the CUT 7 lowdrag he'd be well withing his rights to punch you snseless for such a crass remark. As would Rob Warburton. The three low drags are equally famous and I got out the definitve history because the mind has a habit of playing tricks after a number of years. And it had played tricks.
The Lindner/Nocker car was built as a lightweight E type roadster. It was converted to low drag status with a new roof.
The Lumsden/Sargent car was similar but following a big accident at the Nurburgring was rebodied at the factory with a body made by Playfords not Abbey Panels (Jaguar never made their own body shells in the day except for my lowdrag C-type).
The Protheroe car was built at the factory of lightweight steel, not all alloy. It therefore does not have the S prefix denoting one of the special competition cars, but was a form of lightweight and campaigned with much success.
It seems you wish to defend the indefensible by being dogmatic. For me all knowledge is valuable and I welcome it when I get information beyond what I already have on any Jaguar, racing or not. If you really want to read up on the E-type history in depth then buy this:-
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_from=R40&_trksi...
It's a snip at the price and you won't need to make crass comments any more. If you want the definitive history of the XJ220 though, this was a small run of books and one recently sold on ebay at £1,500. just as well I bought them all when they were current.
The Lindner/Nocker car was built as a lightweight E type roadster. It was converted to low drag status with a new roof.
The Lumsden/Sargent car was similar but following a big accident at the Nurburgring was rebodied at the factory with a body made by Playfords not Abbey Panels (Jaguar never made their own body shells in the day except for my lowdrag C-type).
The Protheroe car was built at the factory of lightweight steel, not all alloy. It therefore does not have the S prefix denoting one of the special competition cars, but was a form of lightweight and campaigned with much success.
It seems you wish to defend the indefensible by being dogmatic. For me all knowledge is valuable and I welcome it when I get information beyond what I already have on any Jaguar, racing or not. If you really want to read up on the E-type history in depth then buy this:-
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_from=R40&_trksi...
It's a snip at the price and you won't need to make crass comments any more. If you want the definitive history of the XJ220 though, this was a small run of books and one recently sold on ebay at £1,500. just as well I bought them all when they were current.
Edited by lowdrag on Tuesday 9th August 19:12
On eBay, Lindner Nocker for sale. I think it's the No 1 of 1 made by Vicarage at the time. The body looks very similar to the Simon Dunford copies. It was probably made by him.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jaguar-E-Type-BLK-/3017814...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jaguar-E-Type-BLK-/3017814...
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