Discussion
Technic lego has been a disaster ever since they moved from the traditional beams to the 'smooth' ones and all models being odd stud dimensions (i.e. not even numbers of studs).
The old technic had an inherent rigidity and strength to it. It was easy just to build and explore; letting the model happen. The axioms / heuristics you had to rely on were few. It's just so much harder to build anything out of your imagination with the new stuff. Nothing 'falls to hand' and everything has to be pre-planned.
Okay, so the old stuff required some odd conventions, like connecting one beam to another perpendicular one as a moment joint, for example. But the new stuff is just so - well - hard to visualise. And flimsy. For example, with the new stuff, you can only connect a beam to another beam by pinning them together; and you can only do that on one face. With the old beams, you could press or pin beams together in many ways.
The new stuff - to me - just seems to rely on a ridiculous number of specialised connectors (all carefully colour-coded so you can differentiate them) to overcome the limitations of the smooth beams, when the old stuff was just intuitive. You could do less with the old stuff, granted, but you had more fun and you learned more - which was the key to it all. The bricks didn't get in the way of the building, if that makes sense.
The differentials in the new stuff are awesome, however.
The old technic had an inherent rigidity and strength to it. It was easy just to build and explore; letting the model happen. The axioms / heuristics you had to rely on were few. It's just so much harder to build anything out of your imagination with the new stuff. Nothing 'falls to hand' and everything has to be pre-planned.
Okay, so the old stuff required some odd conventions, like connecting one beam to another perpendicular one as a moment joint, for example. But the new stuff is just so - well - hard to visualise. And flimsy. For example, with the new stuff, you can only connect a beam to another beam by pinning them together; and you can only do that on one face. With the old beams, you could press or pin beams together in many ways.
The new stuff - to me - just seems to rely on a ridiculous number of specialised connectors (all carefully colour-coded so you can differentiate them) to overcome the limitations of the smooth beams, when the old stuff was just intuitive. You could do less with the old stuff, granted, but you had more fun and you learned more - which was the key to it all. The bricks didn't get in the way of the building, if that makes sense.
The differentials in the new stuff are awesome, however.
Edited by dxg on Saturday 21st February 17:12
Alex@POD said:
King Herald said:
You can't build anything other than the model you buy nowadays.
I'd argue that was probably also true back then, a single kit would be limited for building anything else with. I have realised it would be difficult for me to come up with something from just a pile of parts, but then again I'm sure if I gave that pile of parts to a 9 year old he'd have something done in no time!
But making your own stuff is all part of the fun, and as an adult you set your sights far higher and so to build up the requisite parts you need to buy a lot of fancy kits and the cost seems pretty high.
But assuming today's Lego is as good as that 30+ years ago, it'll still be around for your kids and grandkids to enjoy.
And if you get bored it can always be moved on for near what you pay for it, so it's cheap to own really, especially if you look after it and the manuals etc.
dxg said:
Technic lego has been a disaster ever since they moved from the traditional beams to the 'smooth' ones and all models being odd stud dimensions (i.e. not even numbers of studs).
The old technic had an inherent rigidity and strength to it. It was easy just to build and explore; letting the model happen. The axioms / heuristics you had to rely on were few. It's just so much harder to build anything out of your imagination with the new stuff. Nothing 'falls to hand' and everything has to be pre-planned.
Okay, so the old stuff required some odd conventions, like connecting one beam to another perpendicular one as a moment joint, for example. But the new stuff is just so - well - hard to visualise. And flimsy. For example, with the new stuff, you can only connect a beam to another beam by pinning them together; and you can only do that on one face. With the old beams, you could press or pin beams together in many ways.
The new stuff - to me - just seems to rely on a ridiculous number of specialised connectors (all carefully colour-coded so you can differentiate them) to overcome the limitations of the smooth beams, when the old stuff was just intuitive. You could do less with the old stuff, granted, but you had more fun and you learned more - which was the key to it all. The bricks didn't get in the way of the building, if that makes sense.
The differentials in the new stuff are awesome, however.
I tend to agree with all that.The old technic had an inherent rigidity and strength to it. It was easy just to build and explore; letting the model happen. The axioms / heuristics you had to rely on were few. It's just so much harder to build anything out of your imagination with the new stuff. Nothing 'falls to hand' and everything has to be pre-planned.
Okay, so the old stuff required some odd conventions, like connecting one beam to another perpendicular one as a moment joint, for example. But the new stuff is just so - well - hard to visualise. And flimsy. For example, with the new stuff, you can only connect a beam to another beam by pinning them together; and you can only do that on one face. With the old beams, you could press or pin beams together in many ways.
The new stuff - to me - just seems to rely on a ridiculous number of specialised connectors (all carefully colour-coded so you can differentiate them) to overcome the limitations of the smooth beams, when the old stuff was just intuitive. You could do less with the old stuff, granted, but you had more fun and you learned more - which was the key to it all. The bricks didn't get in the way of the building, if that makes sense.
The differentials in the new stuff are awesome, however.
Edited by dxg on Saturday 21st February 17:12
You can achieve more but to do so requires many times more work. But to make a simple gearbox for example seems impossible without spending about 20x longer than before.
So you're left making the box kits or having to invest much time to make stuff which arguably is better... But I'm not sure as s kid i'd have had the patience to work for days or weeks to make my own stuff like that.
What is most frustrating is that the base kits aren't even that good for kids learning about stuff as half the 'features' don't do real stuff, they're just there so it has features... Ie gearboxes and supplementary power kit stuff on LM car
There are gems of kits out there though, and I guess you get used to working with stuff eventually. But part of me thinks 'normal' Lego is now probably more fun to be creative with as its all still just stud based not a network of pins/shafts based.
If I get nowhere with my own builds I'll be selling I for normal
Lego I think.
Hmmmm
Mr Whippy said:
What is most frustrating is that the base kits aren't even that good for kids learning about stuff as half the 'features' don't do real stuff, they're just there so it has features... Ie gearboxes and supplementary power kit stuff on LM car
This is it for me. I could argue the pros and cons of old vs. new style beams either way, and similarly about the ever increasing number of specialist/single-application parts, but it's (some!) of the kits themselves that leave me a little "meh" - the things they do are more cosmetic than related to the mechanics of the model itself.Example:
- 8860 car chassis... working engine with fan, steering, suspension, gearbox, adjustable seats; following the instructions to add the "power functions" of the time makes it move, vs.
- 42039 24hr racer... working engine, suspension, steering, and then doors and back panel flip up/down (yes, via a gearbox etc., but... well... meh); following the instructions to add the power functions motorises/lights the cosmetic bits and it's still a static model
I guess my favourite kits (new and old!) are those that do lots related to the model itself, so...
- 8860 car chassis (as above)
- 42029 pick up truck (the winch and tipping bed, along with engine/suspension/steering are related to the model rather than cosmetic
- any of the cranes 8053/8421/42009 (raise/lower, extend/retract, lift/drop, engine, steering, stabilisers)
- 8455 backhoe loader (essentially a fully functioning digger, big on the action and light on the cosmetics in a relatively compact model)
The F1 car (42000) is kind of good - there's lots of great features (the pushrod suspension and adjustable rear wing are both excellent), but the lifting engine cover to see more of the engine which is already mostly visible is a bit cosmetic.
Mr Whippy said:
I think a lot of 'what to build' problems come down to a lack of imagination as you get older.
This! Following artificial rules that things must be used in the way originally described/intended limits what can be done overall. The parts in this little box (together with others):
can be used to build aeroplane wings, car spoilers, drop curbs, flying sauces, bridge inclines, ... and roofs.
All that said, I could just be getting old and remembering the "good ole days", putting myself in mind of this (YouTube link).
I agree to a degree about the new sets being limited to just building them and the 2nd model...but for me it is also about understanding how to make an engineering function work in Lego, such as a gearbox, crane etc....that's half the fun.
I posted a couple of years back about my Lego tank...for those who don't remember....I found all my old technic Lego, bought some of the new large models, bought a whole load of motors and parts on eBay, and built myself a rather large tank. It included all the things you'd expect on a large Lego model, plus a few more.
For those who want to see the results, here are a couple of video links...
http://youtu.be/Mq0rad6kH4Y
http://youtu.be/LOGqgRDNKXw
For those who want to see the build progress....
http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopi... Make sure you go to Page 2 of this link to see more of the build closer to completion.
And here for the finished build...
http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopi...
And for those want to see some of the motor functions explained...
http://youtu.be/M4BvT2_1meY
http://youtu.be/7_No-EJDEAY
http://youtu.be/NaEQTl2IoX4
http://youtu.be/pd4ipruDbmg
http://youtu.be/-2HVWwP6nOQ
Length: 71 studs - Body only, excluding rear bucket
Width: 36 studs
Height: 23 studs – excluding munitions reloader
Barrel length: 54 studs
Elevation: -5 degrees +25 degrees
Weight: 4.760 Kg
13 PF motors
3 switches
8 pairs PF lights
2 Battery boxes
All was done from my head (with much trial and error), over the course of several months, and with a HUGE amount of parts. Shockingly expensive, but great fun to finally complete it, and shoot something.
I posted a couple of years back about my Lego tank...for those who don't remember....I found all my old technic Lego, bought some of the new large models, bought a whole load of motors and parts on eBay, and built myself a rather large tank. It included all the things you'd expect on a large Lego model, plus a few more.
For those who want to see the results, here are a couple of video links...
http://youtu.be/Mq0rad6kH4Y
http://youtu.be/LOGqgRDNKXw
For those who want to see the build progress....
http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopi... Make sure you go to Page 2 of this link to see more of the build closer to completion.
And here for the finished build...
http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopi...
And for those want to see some of the motor functions explained...
http://youtu.be/M4BvT2_1meY
http://youtu.be/7_No-EJDEAY
http://youtu.be/NaEQTl2IoX4
http://youtu.be/pd4ipruDbmg
http://youtu.be/-2HVWwP6nOQ
Length: 71 studs - Body only, excluding rear bucket
Width: 36 studs
Height: 23 studs – excluding munitions reloader
Barrel length: 54 studs
Elevation: -5 degrees +25 degrees
Weight: 4.760 Kg
13 PF motors
3 switches
8 pairs PF lights
2 Battery boxes
All was done from my head (with much trial and error), over the course of several months, and with a HUGE amount of parts. Shockingly expensive, but great fun to finally complete it, and shoot something.
Luca Brazzi said:
I agree to a degree about the new sets being limited to just building them and the 2nd model...but for me it is also about understanding how to make an engineering function work in Lego, such as a gearbox, crane etc....that's half the fun.
I posted a couple of years back about my Lego tank...for those who don't remember....I found all my old technic Lego, bought some of the new large models, bought a whole load of motors and parts on eBay, and built myself a rather large tank. It included all the things you'd expect on a large Lego model, plus a few more.
For those who want to see the results, here are a couple of video links...
http://youtu.be/Mq0rad6kH4Y
http://youtu.be/LOGqgRDNKXw
For those who want to see the build progress....
http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopi... Make sure you go to Page 2 of this link to see more of the build closer to completion.
And here for the finished build...
http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopi...
And for those want to see some of the motor functions explained...
http://youtu.be/M4BvT2_1meY
http://youtu.be/7_No-EJDEAY
http://youtu.be/NaEQTl2IoX4
http://youtu.be/pd4ipruDbmg
http://youtu.be/-2HVWwP6nOQ
Length: 71 studs - Body only, excluding rear bucket
Width: 36 studs
Height: 23 studs – excluding munitions reloader
Barrel length: 54 studs
Elevation: -5 degrees +25 degrees
Weight: 4.760 Kg
13 PF motors
3 switches
8 pairs PF lights
2 Battery boxes
All was done from my head (with much trial and error), over the course of several months, and with a HUGE amount of parts. Shockingly expensive, but great fun to finally complete it, and shoot something.
That is truly epic!!I posted a couple of years back about my Lego tank...for those who don't remember....I found all my old technic Lego, bought some of the new large models, bought a whole load of motors and parts on eBay, and built myself a rather large tank. It included all the things you'd expect on a large Lego model, plus a few more.
For those who want to see the results, here are a couple of video links...
http://youtu.be/Mq0rad6kH4Y
http://youtu.be/LOGqgRDNKXw
For those who want to see the build progress....
http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopi... Make sure you go to Page 2 of this link to see more of the build closer to completion.
And here for the finished build...
http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopi...
And for those want to see some of the motor functions explained...
http://youtu.be/M4BvT2_1meY
http://youtu.be/7_No-EJDEAY
http://youtu.be/NaEQTl2IoX4
http://youtu.be/pd4ipruDbmg
http://youtu.be/-2HVWwP6nOQ
Length: 71 studs - Body only, excluding rear bucket
Width: 36 studs
Height: 23 studs – excluding munitions reloader
Barrel length: 54 studs
Elevation: -5 degrees +25 degrees
Weight: 4.760 Kg
13 PF motors
3 switches
8 pairs PF lights
2 Battery boxes
All was done from my head (with much trial and error), over the course of several months, and with a HUGE amount of parts. Shockingly expensive, but great fun to finally complete it, and shoot something.
and a large Podie said:
shep1001 said:
russy01 said:
Think it's aug.
Thanks Russ, I thought Aug was the truck & crane, was looking forward to something in between!
Chris200 said:
Blimmin typical, just about to finish a model and I am missing 1 cog/gear (big white one) that is critical for the whole mechanism. There should have been 3 in the set and I only have 2!! Have ordered one from Lego as a missing part.....HOW ANNOYING!
Yea, happened to me a few times.Then I find the offending part stuck in another one
Gassing Station | Scale Models | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff