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macscrooge
3 posts
13 months
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Splendid stuff! A Princess 2 (1.7HL) was the first car I ever drove - which perhaps explains my subsequent fearlessness when manouevering large cars! It was my dad's car which he ran for 3 years from new. Though far from perfect I have given it the benefit of the doubt and remember it with some affection. I wonder what happened to HSP 30W. It was replaced with an Ambassador 2.0 HLS with the twin-carb O-series engine and fripperies like powered windows, locks and steering! This was actually quite a weapon in it's day and while nowhere like as quick as say, a 2.0 Sierra, unlike the Ford it was a substantial car - at the cost of 22mpg . OSR 388Y was sold in 1985.
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B'stard Child
5,951 posts
116 months
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macscrooge said: Splendid stuff! A Princess 2 (1.7HL) was the first car I ever drove - which perhaps explains my subsequent fearlessness when manouevering large cars! It was my dad's car which he ran for 3 years from new. Though far from perfect I have given it the benefit of the doubt and remember it with some affection. I wonder what happened to HSP 30W. It's a fridge now probably The vehicle details for HSP 30W are: Date of Liability 01 04 1993 Date of First Registration 09 05 1981 Year of Manufacture 1981 Cylinder Capacity (cc) 1700cc CO2 Emissions Not Available Fuel Type PETROL Export Marker N Vehicle Status Unlicensed Vehicle Colour SILVER Vehicle Type Approval Not Available macscrooge said: It was replaced with an Ambassador 2.0 HLS with the twin-carb O-series engine and fripperies like powered windows, locks and steering! This was actually quite a weapon in it's day and while nowhere like as quick as say, a 2.0 Sierra, unlike the Ford it was a substantial car - at the cost of 22mpg . OSR 388Y was sold in 1985. Also a fridge now probably The vehicle details for OSR 388Y are: Date of Liability 01 01 1992 Date of First Registration 11 03 1983 Year of Manufacture 1983 Cylinder Capacity (cc) 1994cc CO2 Emissions Not Available Fuel Type PETROL Export Marker N Vehicle Status Unlicensed Vehicle Colour WHITE Vehicle Type Approval Not Available
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B'stard Child
5,951 posts
116 months
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Data above is a strong indication of why the rolling 25 yr historic taxation group stopped at 1973.....
DVLA have absolutely no idea of how many cars are out there - just classified as unlicenced
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macscrooge
3 posts
13 months
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Thanks for the info. I'm impressed the Princess lasted so long! The Ambassador was white so already looked a bit fridge like...
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Gary C
604 posts
49 months
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Riggers said: I think there was a lot more to the death of BL than the products, which were - albeit inconsistently - innovative, interesting and ahead of the game.
If BL had ever formed an effective management structure or grasped the concept of marketing in any way effectively,the British car industry could look very different today. Don't blame it on the cars. But the cars WERE crap. The management and the unions destroyed the company true. The unions believed that they could demand whatever they wanted and the management would not move out of the 50's but both were so arrogant to believe we made the best cars in the world when we made mostly crap. I mean we stillmade cars with trunions ffs. We innovated on single items and made a song and dance about them while japan where quietly making cars that actually started on a cold morning.
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B'stard Child
5,951 posts
116 months
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Gary C said: Riggers said: I think there was a lot more to the death of BL than the products, which were - albeit inconsistently - innovative, interesting and ahead of the game.
If BL had ever formed an effective management structure or grasped the concept of marketing in any way effectively,the British car industry could look very different today. Don't blame it on the cars. But the cars WERE crap. The management and the unions destroyed the company true. The unions believed that they could demand whatever they wanted and the management would not move out of the 50's but both were so arrogant to believe we made the best cars in the world when we made mostly crap. I mean we stillmade cars with trunions ffs. We innovated on single items and made a song and dance about them while japan where quietly making cars that actually started on a cold morning. Alternatively - the cars were OK - Japan just raised the bar reliability wise - unfortunately what they produced was bland, insipid and totally devolved of any driver feedback element - IMHO more crap
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Strawman
5,166 posts
77 months
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B'stard Child said: Alternatively - the cars were OK - Japan just raised the bar reliability wise - unfortunately what they produced was bland, insipid and totally devolved of any driver feedback element - IMHO more crap Not all of it, the export cars in the early 60's weren't that exciting, but they exported more driver orientated cars once they had established a mainstream revenue stream and established a dealer network.
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B'stard Child
5,951 posts
116 months
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Strawman said: B'stard Child said: Alternatively - the cars were OK - Japan just raised the bar reliability wise - unfortunately what they produced was bland, insipid and totally devolved of any driver feedback element - IMHO more crap Not all of it, the export cars in the early 60's weren't that exciting, but they exported more driver orientated cars once they had established a mainstream revenue stream and established a dealer network. So by lets say the mid 80's they were all brilliant drivers machines?? I was flogging J tin at that time and I moved to Fiat 
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Gary C
604 posts
49 months
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B'stard Child said: Alternatively - the cars were OK - Japan just raised the bar reliability wise - unfortunately what they produced was bland, insipid and totally devolved of any driver feedback element - IMHO more crap Wont argue that a 120y was the last word in driver involvment, but have you ever driven a marina or a maxi ? The uk made some nice cars but lost the plot compare an mga with an mgb, I would not describe it as much progress. Thing is, BL told people what they wanted, Japan actually sold them what they wanted (We are talking the mass market here)
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Strawman
5,166 posts
77 months
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B'stard Child said: So by lets say the mid 80's they were all brilliant drivers machines?? I was flogging J tin at that time and I moved to Fiat No most were Nissan Micras and Toyota Corollas, but there was some good stuff by then as well. FIAT hardly have an illustrious back catalogue, the turbo coupé I suppose.
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LuS1fer
28,863 posts
115 months
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Gary C said: . Japan actually sold them what they wanted (We are talking the mass market here) What, a radio as standard? Japanese cars were dynamically inferior and still rusted to buggery. If PH had been around then, they would have been lambasted mercilessly. That sasi, my father had a 70s Corolla 30 and the interior was very good but in fairness, British cars had upped their game but many had defected and were comparing them to their 60s cars they were trading in.
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Dave Hedgehog
5,321 posts
74 months
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vile BL crud at its worst
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Gary C
604 posts
49 months
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LuS1fer said: What, a radio as standard?
Japanese cars were dynamically inferior and still rusted to buggery. If PH had been around then, they would have been lambasted mercilessly. That sasi, my father had a 70s Corolla 30 and the interior was very good but in fairness, British cars had upped their game but many had defected and were comparing them to their 60s cars they were trading in. The Ital was a good example. BL thought getting a ital design makeover on a marina was a good idea. You cant argue with the fact that BL cars did not improve fast enough whereas jap car improved every 1 to 2 years. BL made some awful cars. Princess, marina, maxi being from the period when they were at their worst. Montego, maesto, metro were much better, but not good enough keep up with the rapidly improving japs.
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B'stard Child
5,951 posts
116 months
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Gary C said: B'stard Child said: Alternatively - the cars were OK - Japan just raised the bar reliability wise - unfortunately what they produced was bland, insipid and totally devolved of any driver feedback element - IMHO more crap Wont argue that a 120y was the last word in driver involvment, but have you ever driven a marina or a maxi ? Yep both - I like the marina more mind Gary C said: The uk made some nice cars but lost the plot
compare an mga with an mgb, I would not describe it as much progress.
Thing is, BL told people what they wanted, Japan actually sold them what they wanted (We are talking the mass market here) I'll agree with you there - Japan made cars that were more reliable out of the box but that didn't make them nice to drive
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B'stard Child
5,951 posts
116 months
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Strawman said: B'stard Child said: So by lets say the mid 80's they were all brilliant drivers machines?? I was flogging J tin at that time and I moved to Fiat No most were Nissan Micras and Toyota Corollas, but there was some good stuff by then as well. FIAT hardly have an illustrious back catalogue, the turbo coupé I suppose. You are a bit later on - when I was selling Nissans some where double badged as Datsuns offerings were very first Micra, Cherry, Sunny, Bluebird, Silvia and the 300ZX (which I actually quite liked) Fiat were selling Panda 750 & 1000S (which was a great drivers car) Fiat Uno (turbo was fun) X19 (last versions) Regatta (Prefered in estate form) and Croma.
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B'stard Child
5,951 posts
116 months
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Dave Hedgehog said: vile BL crud at its worst Checks profile - mmmm well qualified to comment with that car history - I'm not a BL fan boy but that comment can't be justified
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Gary C
604 posts
49 months
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At thw time when a marina was a possible choice of car for me, I had a chevette  Don't laugh too loud.
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LuS1fer
28,863 posts
115 months
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Gary C said: The Ital was a good example. BL thought getting a ital design makeover on a marina was a good idea. You cant argue with the fact that BL cars did not improve fast enough whereas jap car improved every 1 to 2 years.
BL made some awful cars. Princess, marina, maxi being from the period when they were at their worst. Montego, maesto, metro were much better, but not good enough keep up with the rapidly improving japs. The Marina was ancient when it was launched - the Ital was a bad joke that my ex mother-in-law bought. Never really liked the Maxi and don't know anyone who bought one. However, my father bought the revised Princess 2200HLS and it was a very nice car indeed and far, far nicer than the 1977 Toyota Cressida it replaced. I never really understood the hate for the Princess or the later Ambassador. They weren't great in a PH sense but the hydragas was very wafty and the interior space was peerless. I know there were issues with Princess 1 but the 2 with the O-Series engines were much better. I actually disagree that the Montego, Maestro and Metro were better - they were better dynamically but the interiors were worse (the Citroen BX was a much better car) and BL went all bland trying to compete with the Golf and Jetta. The Metro was far worse than the Mini...enough said.
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J4CKO
7,574 posts
70 months
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How was the Metro worse than the Mini ? everyone loves the Mini and there are some rose tinted specs, for most people a Metro had better suspension, more room, better visibility, more versative being a hatch. The engines and transmissions were pretty much the same, the Mini handled well mainly as it had very little suspension, they were easily upset by bumps mid corner and as standard they werent the handling legend people think they are. Think half the issue in the Mini versus Metro thing was like the Fiat 500 and 126, cute wins the day.
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Gary C
604 posts
49 months
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LuS1fer said: The Marina was ancient when it was launched - the Ital was a bad joke that my ex mother-in-law bought.
Never really liked the Maxi and don't know anyone who bought one. However, my father bought the revised Princess 2200HLS and it was a very nice car indeed and far, far nicer than the 1977 Toyota Cressida it replaced. I never really understood the hate for the Princess or the later Ambassador. They weren't great in a PH sense but the hydragas was very wafty and the interior space was peerless. I know there were issues with Princess 1 but the 2 with the O-Series engines were much better.
I actually disagree that the Montego, Maestro and Metro were better - they were better dynamically but the interiors were worse (the Citroen BX was a much better car) and BL went all bland trying to compete with the Golf and Jetta. The Metro was far worse than the Mini...enough said. Humm. Metro did not have the mini's aura, but was a more comfortable, faster, more spacious car. Pity they used the hydragas, while it was trumpeted as the best thing since sliced bread, it was too bouncy at the rear on the MG model. The maestro handled quite well in MG form (good in the snow). The monty no go was ok but I dont have enough experience to comment ( though the talking dash model was novel) We made good cars, sat back on our laurels and produced poor insipid, 'grandad' cars. By the time we noticed, it was much too late. Maybe its time the Uk should start again !
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