RE: Spotted: '04 Koenigsegg CC8S
Discussion
ks!
TWareham said:
Hi Chaps,
The article above is actually incorrectly linked this car is with us and for sale exclusively by us the official appointed agents for Koenigsegg. www.SuperVettura.com
It is a beautiful example of an early Koenigsegg and has as some of the comments have mentioned above the most incredible mileage for a car of its year. I have looked after the Koenigsegg brand in the UK now for some 5 years and even today the cars performance and engineering blows my mind.
When you compare just the exclusivity and performance alone of a Koenigsegg it is just the tip of the ice berg with regards to its "bang for bucks"...
I have known this car from its first owner and it really has been incredibly well looked after and cared for, hire car or not it is really irrelevant when talking of this individual vehicle. I would not even need half the fingers on one of my hands to count the amount of times the car was hired out and as you can see from the Koenigsegg factory bills mentioned the hire firm was certainly not shy of spending money to maintain and upgrade the vehicle.
On a further point there is the big rumour about these cars being unreliable, I would really like to clear this up. In all my time with Koenigsegg I have only ever had to recover one car from the side of the road, I have completed thousands of miles in Koenigsegg's all of them I have made without any trouble. The biggest mechanical problem with the Koenigsegg are the batteries which drain very easily and quickly. Most cars are used infrequently and not put on the factory supplied trickle charger as you should and are instructed to do so on delivery, therefore when the owner comes to use the car after some time the car will not start just like any other car left to go flat! The batteries are in an awkward place and are expensive to buy therefore when this happens the cost of repair is high around £1000, generally after the first time the owners tend to keep the car on charge when not in use. The new Agera solves this issue with a different type of battery which cannot die, these can also be retro-fitted to older Koenigsegg models.
Mechanically I cannot think of any major problems we have had and the cars are only seen when they come in each year for the annual service, which also to be fair is not outrageous the last car we serviced was around £6000 which for a 250mph car of this rarity seems pretty sensible. What is a Bugatti to service now, double that?
If anyone is looking for something that is just that step above a Murcielago or big Supercar with regards exclusivity and performance then for not silly money the Koenigsegg is the car for them.
Rarity, Hand built, and so much Performance all for sub £300k!
Happy to answer any question on this or any other Koenigsegg...
Many thanks,
Tom
Tommy Wareham
Director
SuperVettura Sales Ltd.
www.SuperVettura.com
Points well put.The article above is actually incorrectly linked this car is with us and for sale exclusively by us the official appointed agents for Koenigsegg. www.SuperVettura.com
It is a beautiful example of an early Koenigsegg and has as some of the comments have mentioned above the most incredible mileage for a car of its year. I have looked after the Koenigsegg brand in the UK now for some 5 years and even today the cars performance and engineering blows my mind.
When you compare just the exclusivity and performance alone of a Koenigsegg it is just the tip of the ice berg with regards to its "bang for bucks"...
I have known this car from its first owner and it really has been incredibly well looked after and cared for, hire car or not it is really irrelevant when talking of this individual vehicle. I would not even need half the fingers on one of my hands to count the amount of times the car was hired out and as you can see from the Koenigsegg factory bills mentioned the hire firm was certainly not shy of spending money to maintain and upgrade the vehicle.
On a further point there is the big rumour about these cars being unreliable, I would really like to clear this up. In all my time with Koenigsegg I have only ever had to recover one car from the side of the road, I have completed thousands of miles in Koenigsegg's all of them I have made without any trouble. The biggest mechanical problem with the Koenigsegg are the batteries which drain very easily and quickly. Most cars are used infrequently and not put on the factory supplied trickle charger as you should and are instructed to do so on delivery, therefore when the owner comes to use the car after some time the car will not start just like any other car left to go flat! The batteries are in an awkward place and are expensive to buy therefore when this happens the cost of repair is high around £1000, generally after the first time the owners tend to keep the car on charge when not in use. The new Agera solves this issue with a different type of battery which cannot die, these can also be retro-fitted to older Koenigsegg models.
Mechanically I cannot think of any major problems we have had and the cars are only seen when they come in each year for the annual service, which also to be fair is not outrageous the last car we serviced was around £6000 which for a 250mph car of this rarity seems pretty sensible. What is a Bugatti to service now, double that?
If anyone is looking for something that is just that step above a Murcielago or big Supercar with regards exclusivity and performance then for not silly money the Koenigsegg is the car for them.
Rarity, Hand built, and so much Performance all for sub £300k!
Happy to answer any question on this or any other Koenigsegg...
Many thanks,
Tom
Tommy Wareham
Director
SuperVettura Sales Ltd.
www.SuperVettura.com
There is a whiff of armchair hypercar owners on this thread.
You never ever know until you've witnessed at first hand the utter lunacy (good and bad) of hypercar ownership.
Buy it and then report back...
smash said:
j_s14a said:
But with an Ultima, you could build the interior how you want it 
you could spec a bespoke interior, with classy, bespoke switch gear ...
Yes but what could you do about the exterior? you could spec a bespoke interior, with classy, bespoke switch gear ...
It shouldn't matter, but it is a huge weak point.
I'm surprised they or someone else hasn't addressed it yet. As much as they are likely fantastic to drive, it's nice to have a car that looks really nice too.
I actually prefer the Ultima Spider because it gets rid of the stupid doors with their 1960's fighter aircraft windows
Dave
TWareham said:
Hi Chaps,
On a further point there is the big rumour about these cars being unreliable, I would really like to clear this up. In all my time with Koenigsegg I have only ever had to recover one car from the side of the road, I have completed thousands of miles in Koenigsegg's all of them I have made without any trouble. The biggest mechanical problem with the Koenigsegg are the batteries which drain very easily and quickly. Most cars are used infrequently and not put on the factory supplied trickle charger as you should and are instructed to do so on delivery, therefore when the owner comes to use the car after some time the car will not start just like any other car left to go flat! The batteries are in an awkward place and are expensive to buy therefore when this happens the cost of repair is high around £1000, generally after the first time the owners tend to keep the car on charge when not in use. The new Agera solves this issue with a different type of battery which cannot die, these can also be retro-fitted to older Koenigsegg models.
Mechanically I cannot think of any major problems we have had and the cars are only seen when they come in each year for the annual service, which also to be fair is not outrageous the last car we serviced was around £6000 which for a 250mph car of this rarity seems pretty sensible. What is a Bugatti to service now, double that?
If anyone is looking for something that is just that step above a Murcielago or big Supercar with regards exclusivity and performance then for not silly money the Koenigsegg is the car for them.
Rarity, Hand built, and so much Performance all for sub £300k!
Well said, sir - and from one who (even taking into account the obvious conflict of interest!) knows more about Koenigseggs than probably all of us here. Koenigsegg unreliability is frequently bandied around online but it seems to be more of a 'Chinese whispers' phenomenon than actually backed up with hard evidence. For me, this car, and indeed most second-hand Koenigseggs, are amazing value for money. In terms of performance and rarity, Koenigseggs stand above pretty much everything apart from Veyrons - and yet strangely both the Bugattis and Koenigseggs seem to haemhorrhage (spelling?!) value while Zondas and Enzos accumulate. You can't compare them with anything 'normal' like SLRs or 458s. On a further point there is the big rumour about these cars being unreliable, I would really like to clear this up. In all my time with Koenigsegg I have only ever had to recover one car from the side of the road, I have completed thousands of miles in Koenigsegg's all of them I have made without any trouble. The biggest mechanical problem with the Koenigsegg are the batteries which drain very easily and quickly. Most cars are used infrequently and not put on the factory supplied trickle charger as you should and are instructed to do so on delivery, therefore when the owner comes to use the car after some time the car will not start just like any other car left to go flat! The batteries are in an awkward place and are expensive to buy therefore when this happens the cost of repair is high around £1000, generally after the first time the owners tend to keep the car on charge when not in use. The new Agera solves this issue with a different type of battery which cannot die, these can also be retro-fitted to older Koenigsegg models.
Mechanically I cannot think of any major problems we have had and the cars are only seen when they come in each year for the annual service, which also to be fair is not outrageous the last car we serviced was around £6000 which for a 250mph car of this rarity seems pretty sensible. What is a Bugatti to service now, double that?
If anyone is looking for something that is just that step above a Murcielago or big Supercar with regards exclusivity and performance then for not silly money the Koenigsegg is the car for them.
Rarity, Hand built, and so much Performance all for sub £300k!
And another thing...in an era when the Mclaren MP4-12C and even the Lambo Aventador have been criticised for being clinical and too easy to drive, should this not mean that the Koenigsegg is lauded for apparently being (in a good way) a bit of a handful, demanding committment and concentration? Sorry to get on my high horse, but I just don't understand why Koenigseggs don't get more love than they do. It's been suggested on this forum that Pagani really benefited from lots of positive free advertising courtesy of Harry Metcalfe in Evo - yet some of the columns I read suggested that his car wasn't the most reliable, and that even a few years ago Pagani's upgrades were accompanied by crazy pricing structures. I also seem to remember that Zonda owner Andy74b on this forum didn't get the nicest treatment from the factory when he asked them to justify some of their prices. Yet anything I've read about Koenigsegg's factory and customer service have been uniformly positive - yes, I'm sure everything still costs a fortune, but if I had the choice, I know where my hypothetical lottery winnings would be going!
Impressive car with an equally impressive price tag. Personally my tastes would lien to something like a Ford GT of the same year and if i wanted to compete with the Konisegg I would simply have a supercharged and requite upgrades done to it but the world has changed a lot from 2004 and I think the pricing is a little high for these economic times maybe a case could be made for this car being a good buy were it 100k less but for 245K you could have a nice little collection with an equal or superior hypercar as a center piece as well
I can't believe all the comments about the interior - if it makes that much difference to you, buy an Audi, apparently they have the best interior design 
Nope, I'd happily have this if I won the lottery. Gorgeous shape & ultra rapid - what's not to like..?? I buy a car to drive, not sit ogling the interior..!
Nope, I'd happily have this if I won the lottery. Gorgeous shape & ultra rapid - what's not to like..?? I buy a car to drive, not sit ogling the interior..!
[quote=j_s14a]It's a good looking beastie, but when you start looking at the details, it seems little more than an Ultima in a posh frock. Ie; generic tacky kit car rear lights, generic tacky kit car switches/buttons, generic tacky kit car fuel filler, stack dash etc etc
You could build a 1000hp Ultima using a crate engine for almost 1/3rd of the cost of this (though I'm sure 500-600hp would more than suffice in one of those) and end up with a similar, though quicker, product.
Don't be silly. You end up with a kit car.
You could build a 1000hp Ultima using a crate engine for almost 1/3rd of the cost of this (though I'm sure 500-600hp would more than suffice in one of those) and end up with a similar, though quicker, product.
Don't be silly. You end up with a kit car.
Nuppy said:
I can't believe all the comments about the interior - if it makes that much difference to you, buy an Audi, apparently they have the best interior design
Nope, I'd happily have this if I won the lottery. Gorgeous shape & ultra rapid - what's not to like..?? I buy a car to drive, not sit ogling the interior..!
The interior quality is quite important as you want it to look and feel nice. Fortunately the Koenigsegg has a great interior with lots of great little touches, also love the panoramic screen.Nope, I'd happily have this if I won the lottery. Gorgeous shape & ultra rapid - what's not to like..?? I buy a car to drive, not sit ogling the interior..!
My imaginary £250k would go on this for sure, a 458 would be nice for the money but the Koenigsegg is more special.
Oddly I think the styling of the Koenigsegg has advanced positively over the years, I do think this early CC8S is nice, but there is just something about the Agera that I really love.
Oddly I think the styling of the Koenigsegg has advanced positively over the years, I do think this early CC8S is nice, but there is just something about the Agera that I really love.
BelfastBoy said:
TWareham said:
Hi Chaps,
On a further point there is the big rumour about these cars being unreliable, I would really like to clear this up. In all my time with Koenigsegg I have only ever had to recover one car from the side of the road, I have completed thousands of miles in Koenigsegg's all of them I have made without any trouble. The biggest mechanical problem with the Koenigsegg are the batteries which drain very easily and quickly. Most cars are used infrequently and not put on the factory supplied trickle charger as you should and are instructed to do so on delivery, therefore when the owner comes to use the car after some time the car will not start just like any other car left to go flat! The batteries are in an awkward place and are expensive to buy therefore when this happens the cost of repair is high around £1000, generally after the first time the owners tend to keep the car on charge when not in use. The new Agera solves this issue with a different type of battery which cannot die, these can also be retro-fitted to older Koenigsegg models.
Mechanically I cannot think of any major problems we have had and the cars are only seen when they come in each year for the annual service, which also to be fair is not outrageous the last car we serviced was around £6000 which for a 250mph car of this rarity seems pretty sensible. What is a Bugatti to service now, double that?
If anyone is looking for something that is just that step above a Murcielago or big Supercar with regards exclusivity and performance then for not silly money the Koenigsegg is the car for them.
Rarity, Hand built, and so much Performance all for sub £300k!
Well said, sir - and from one who (even taking into account the obvious conflict of interest!) knows more about Koenigseggs than probably all of us here. Koenigsegg unreliability is frequently bandied around online but it seems to be more of a 'Chinese whispers' phenomenon than actually backed up with hard evidence. For me, this car, and indeed most second-hand Koenigseggs, are amazing value for money. In terms of performance and rarity, Koenigseggs stand above pretty much everything apart from Veyrons - and yet strangely both the Bugattis and Koenigseggs seem to haemhorrhage (spelling?!) value while Zondas and Enzos accumulate. You can't compare them with anything 'normal' like SLRs or 458s. On a further point there is the big rumour about these cars being unreliable, I would really like to clear this up. In all my time with Koenigsegg I have only ever had to recover one car from the side of the road, I have completed thousands of miles in Koenigsegg's all of them I have made without any trouble. The biggest mechanical problem with the Koenigsegg are the batteries which drain very easily and quickly. Most cars are used infrequently and not put on the factory supplied trickle charger as you should and are instructed to do so on delivery, therefore when the owner comes to use the car after some time the car will not start just like any other car left to go flat! The batteries are in an awkward place and are expensive to buy therefore when this happens the cost of repair is high around £1000, generally after the first time the owners tend to keep the car on charge when not in use. The new Agera solves this issue with a different type of battery which cannot die, these can also be retro-fitted to older Koenigsegg models.
Mechanically I cannot think of any major problems we have had and the cars are only seen when they come in each year for the annual service, which also to be fair is not outrageous the last car we serviced was around £6000 which for a 250mph car of this rarity seems pretty sensible. What is a Bugatti to service now, double that?
If anyone is looking for something that is just that step above a Murcielago or big Supercar with regards exclusivity and performance then for not silly money the Koenigsegg is the car for them.
Rarity, Hand built, and so much Performance all for sub £300k!
And another thing...in an era when the Mclaren MP4-12C and even the Lambo Aventador have been criticised for being clinical and too easy to drive, should this not mean that the Koenigsegg is lauded for apparently being (in a good way) a bit of a handful, demanding committment and concentration? Sorry to get on my high horse, but I just don't understand why Koenigseggs don't get more love than they do. It's been suggested on this forum that Pagani really benefited from lots of positive free advertising courtesy of Harry Metcalfe in Evo - yet some of the columns I read suggested that his car wasn't the most reliable, and that even a few years ago Pagani's upgrades were accompanied by crazy pricing structures. I also seem to remember that Zonda owner Andy74b on this forum didn't get the nicest treatment from the factory when he asked them to justify some of their prices. Yet anything I've read about Koenigsegg's factory and customer service have been uniformly positive - yes, I'm sure everything still costs a fortune, but if I had the choice, I know where my hypothetical lottery winnings would be going!
The comparison with a Zonda is an interesting one. You mention Harry Metcalfe's Zonda as having reliability issues, for the record these were all down to a badly fitted clutch by a third party that caused a recurring problem. Once this was identified by the factory the issue never returned.
From a value point of view the Egg is actually a good deal compared to the price when new.
The look of the interior on early cars has been vastly improved with the introduction of the CCX. And if you bought this particular car the factory would be happy to upgrade the interior to the latest spec, for a price of course.
As a side note a lot people may not realise that the Koenigsegg’s Carbon body/chassis and engine block are actually made in England.
Now if it was my money I would hold out and get this RHD CCX instead http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2737423.htm which is due in the showroom at the end of this month. It will be going on sale for £450K and has all the latest bits and bobs including a paddle shift. Considering how much it cost new it sounds like a bargain for a car with a lot less than 1000 miles on the clock:
Edited by Streetrod on Friday 12th August 18:38
Edited by Streetrod on Friday 12th August 19:00
Streetrod said:
Belfastboy, you and I have crossed swords on the subject of Koenigsegg's in the past and I admire your fan boy stance to a point. I too think that in the last few years the cars they have produced have been great, early cars not so much. I noticed far too many quality issues on early cars, but that is not the case anymore.
The comparison with a Zonda is an interesting one. You mention Harry Metcalfe's Zonda as having reliability issues, for the record these were all down to a badly fitted clutch by a third party that caused a recurring problem. Once this was identified by the factory the issue never returned.
From a value point of view the Egg is actually a good deal compared to the price when new.
The look of the interior on early cars has been vastly improved with the introduction of the CCX. And if you bought this particular car the factory would be happy to upgrade the interior to the latest spec, for a price of course.
As a side note a lot people may not realise that the Koenigsegg’s Carbon body/chassis and engine block are actually made in England.
Now if it was my money I would hold out and get this RHD CCX instead http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2737423.htm which is due in the showroom at the end of this month. It will be going on sale for £450K and has all the latest bits and bobs including a paddle shift. Considering how much it cost new it sounds like a bargain for a car with a lot less than 1000 miles on the clock:
Did we cross swords? I don't remember! I've lurked here for years but only recently took the plunge and started posting. Whatever we disagreed about, it must've been polite and, in any case, you've got more practical knowledge of the cars than me so I'm not going to argue with your reliability comments. Wherever possible I do feel obliged to defend / support the Koenigsegg, because - and this is a purely personal stance - I like it more than the Zonda and, in as much as a poor fantasist can do, I think it's a 'better' car on a purely emotional / aesthetic level. I just think it's a bit of shame that Pagani has ascended to a seat on the top table of desirability, while Koenigsegg doesn't quite seem to have reached that level yet, despite having an equally wonderful product. (I've nothing against the Zonda at all; it would be equally welcome in my fantasy garage but just not a first choice. Just can't warm to the looks of the Huayra at all though.)The comparison with a Zonda is an interesting one. You mention Harry Metcalfe's Zonda as having reliability issues, for the record these were all down to a badly fitted clutch by a third party that caused a recurring problem. Once this was identified by the factory the issue never returned.
From a value point of view the Egg is actually a good deal compared to the price when new.
The look of the interior on early cars has been vastly improved with the introduction of the CCX. And if you bought this particular car the factory would be happy to upgrade the interior to the latest spec, for a price of course.
As a side note a lot people may not realise that the Koenigsegg’s Carbon body/chassis and engine block are actually made in England.
Now if it was my money I would hold out and get this RHD CCX instead http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2737423.htm which is due in the showroom at the end of this month. It will be going on sale for £450K and has all the latest bits and bobs including a paddle shift. Considering how much it cost new it sounds like a bargain for a car with a lot less than 1000 miles on the clock:
Edited by Streetrod on Friday 12th August 18:38
Edited by Streetrod on Friday 12th August 19:00
Good call on that CCX, again fantastic value for money. I take it Romans are selling it? Compare that with the Zonda F they've got for £895k!
I love these cars too. And to me this is the simplest and best form being a very pretty thing and much more so than the Zonda. I don't have a problem with the interior - I much prefer it to that in the Zonda which I think is OTT by comparison. Love the roof setup. My only issue with the car when I drove it,and I thought it very easy to drive at anything approaching sensible speeds, was the noise. The V12 of the Zonda makes the Egg's V8 sound a bit iffy. That said I think most of the problem with these is just perception and the resultant effect on prices - finish on the early cars I saw was also not the best although that seemed to be sorted on the later cars. I'm sure if the things stabilised, you'd see many more buyers take them more seriously - me included. But to see the current depreciation curve on these is frightening no matter how much dough you have. Oh and didn;t a lot of these cars get added to hire car fleets (without any real chance of them being hired, given insurance and cost) so that owners could then depreciate them against their business accounts?
BelfastBoy said:
Did we cross swords? I don't remember! I've lurked here for years but only recently took the plunge and started posting. Whatever we disagreed about, it must've been polite and, in any case, you've got more practical knowledge of the cars than me so I'm not going to argue with your reliability comments. Wherever possible I do feel obliged to defend / support the Koenigsegg, because - and this is a purely personal stance - I like it more than the Zonda and, in as much as a poor fantasist can do, I think it's a 'better' car on a purely emotional / aesthetic level. I just think it's a bit of shame that Pagani has ascended to a seat on the top table of desirability, while Koenigsegg doesn't quite seem to have reached that level yet, despite having an equally wonderful product. (I've nothing against the Zonda at all; it would be equally welcome in my fantasy garage but just not a first choice. Just can't warm to the looks of the Huayra at all though.)
Good call on that CCX, again fantastic value for money. I take it Romans are selling it? Compare that with the Zonda F they've got for £895k!
Look mate I have to admit I am a major Zonda fan, but with a few reservations. I also love the Egg especially in CCX guise. Good call on that CCX, again fantastic value for money. I take it Romans are selling it? Compare that with the Zonda F they've got for £895k!
The whole value thing is an interesting one. If you look at the current situation if you wanted to order a special Zonda today it would cost you over £500k more than a Huayra which is the more complicated, sophisticated and expensive car to build. How did that happen?
Well it dates back to just before the recession hit when Zonda's were trading for more second hand they were for new. A classic demand and supply situation. That coupled with the romantic Latin company, its association with Fangio, and Pagani's enviable supercar credentials gave the company a lot of creditability. Let’s not forget he introduced carbon to Lamborghini. As a consequence Pagani pushed the prices higher and higher which have had a knock on effect on second had values.
Koenigsegg on the other hand have come from a country with no supercar heritage. Christian did not have access to workers with supercars in their blood like Pagani did. So he has had to start from ground zero and try and break into a market that has traditionally been dominated by the Italians. He was always going to be on his back foot.
When you add all these factors together you can see why Zonda's are worth a lot more than Egg's.
As a side note I think the massive depreciation in Veyron values is down to their ridiculas running costs. You will find that most of the Veyrons for sale are about due for the first major service. Even rich people realize when they are being ripped off.
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