Which path to follow within IT - Management vs Technical?
Discussion
I'm already within the field carrying out a helpdesk/1st line support role for a large outsourcing company,and looking at getting my career further,fairly young at 24 still as well, with an MCP on XP to my name,with work paying for ITIL and hopefully Prince2.
Before I got into the field,I always wanted to go down the networking route and get into the Cisco side of things,but now that i've had my eye's opened further and seeing chanage/problem/incident manager jobs,along with project manager position's,i'm trying to decide on what path to follow.
I planned on doing the MCSA and then going over to CCNA,however now i'm considering not to "bother" with that no more and focus on getting into a project management position or similar role,have a friend who works for Symantec and he has recommended me to try and get into pre-sales engineering.
I commute 110miles a day and don't get much time to study during the weekdays,and not a great deal of time on weekend's either,studying through work give's me time to learn that while not having to deal with user's.
I don't mind,and still want to learn the CCNA and rest of MCSA as I've got an interest in it.
Just looking for thoughts,advise on what else is out there and what people would decide to do?
Before I got into the field,I always wanted to go down the networking route and get into the Cisco side of things,but now that i've had my eye's opened further and seeing chanage/problem/incident manager jobs,along with project manager position's,i'm trying to decide on what path to follow.
I planned on doing the MCSA and then going over to CCNA,however now i'm considering not to "bother" with that no more and focus on getting into a project management position or similar role,have a friend who works for Symantec and he has recommended me to try and get into pre-sales engineering.
I commute 110miles a day and don't get much time to study during the weekdays,and not a great deal of time on weekend's either,studying through work give's me time to learn that while not having to deal with user's.
I don't mind,and still want to learn the CCNA and rest of MCSA as I've got an interest in it.
Just looking for thoughts,advise on what else is out there and what people would decide to do?
It depends on what you are like and what you want. Most IT technical people I know are much better at dealing with Tech than they are at dealing with people and as a result make poor managers. Line and project management roles require really good people skills for success.
As a techie if you keep your skills up finding a job is generally easier than if you are a generic manager. Project managemt is different again and requires excellent people skills and a fearless nature which is why there are so few good ones around. Can you get people who don't work for you to complete tasks on time and if they're failing and endangering your project do yiu have the balls to confront them about it in an appropriate manner and probably make yourself unpopular as a result?
As a techie if you keep your skills up finding a job is generally easier than if you are a generic manager. Project managemt is different again and requires excellent people skills and a fearless nature which is why there are so few good ones around. Can you get people who don't work for you to complete tasks on time and if they're failing and endangering your project do yiu have the balls to confront them about it in an appropriate manner and probably make yourself unpopular as a result?
The areas which you've mentioned all require different hard & soft skills and, indeed, different character types. Maybe first of all ask yourself what is it about your current role that you like and why you started doing/chose it in the first place? What don't you like and what/why do you want to change?
There's a book called "What color is your parachute" which gets revised pretty much every year. The differences between editions tend to be fairly minor - the important stuff is the core which it's based upon. See if you can grab a secondhand copy (no more than 5 years old is probably best) for a quid or so from a charity shop/library sale. I've found it a useful reference over the years - and certainly early on in my career when I was deciding which routes to take. The reason I mention it is because one of the things it will help you do is understand what you like, why and what you're good at (maybe without realising). Knowing this will help bring clarity to decisions.
The other thing is that over time your motivators and personal goals will change, so try not to box yourself in too early. (IMO, especially the way IT is heading, people are getting too specialised/focussed - the wider the experience the better in the long run.)
Seeing as you're in an IT/Systems support role at the moment, getting some familiarisation with ITIL will help. There's 2 aspects to it - delivery (management) and support - and they're both generally well distanced from the nitty-gritty hardware. That alone might help you understand which direction you want to take.
For project management, look at alternatives to Prince2 e.g. DSDM, but unless you've got the PM "gene" no amount of framework/process is going to make you successful or happy.
I'm actually envious of a chap I used to work with (and still keep in contact with) - he started life as a programmer, had a stint at team leader, had a stint as development manager, hated it and reverted to a senior developer role. He's been doing that for 15 years, is happy as larry doing it and by making sure that he's up to date with technology is earning very nicely thank you (actually if he went contracting he'd earn mega-bucks, but he doesn't want the contractor lifestyle). So, if you've actually managed to luck into something you really enjoy and are good at then stick with it, keep up to date.
There's a book called "What color is your parachute" which gets revised pretty much every year. The differences between editions tend to be fairly minor - the important stuff is the core which it's based upon. See if you can grab a secondhand copy (no more than 5 years old is probably best) for a quid or so from a charity shop/library sale. I've found it a useful reference over the years - and certainly early on in my career when I was deciding which routes to take. The reason I mention it is because one of the things it will help you do is understand what you like, why and what you're good at (maybe without realising). Knowing this will help bring clarity to decisions.
The other thing is that over time your motivators and personal goals will change, so try not to box yourself in too early. (IMO, especially the way IT is heading, people are getting too specialised/focussed - the wider the experience the better in the long run.)
Seeing as you're in an IT/Systems support role at the moment, getting some familiarisation with ITIL will help. There's 2 aspects to it - delivery (management) and support - and they're both generally well distanced from the nitty-gritty hardware. That alone might help you understand which direction you want to take.
For project management, look at alternatives to Prince2 e.g. DSDM, but unless you've got the PM "gene" no amount of framework/process is going to make you successful or happy.
I'm actually envious of a chap I used to work with (and still keep in contact with) - he started life as a programmer, had a stint at team leader, had a stint as development manager, hated it and reverted to a senior developer role. He's been doing that for 15 years, is happy as larry doing it and by making sure that he's up to date with technology is earning very nicely thank you (actually if he went contracting he'd earn mega-bucks, but he doesn't want the contractor lifestyle). So, if you've actually managed to luck into something you really enjoy and are good at then stick with it, keep up to date.
Edited by 72EuropaTC on Wednesday 7th September 20:24
I found that if you wanted a "career" then project management was the only route offered by the big IT employers (I'm an ex-IBMer). I wanted to stay technical, so jumped into contracting about 6 years ago. Interestingly, I'm now working on a contract with IBM 
Obviously there's no "career path" but I've got loads of flexibility and can work-to-live happily.
It really depends on what you want from your job/career. You can probably go "further" as a project manager in the traditional "career ladder" terminology, but it'll quite quickly become non-technical.
Obviously there's no "career path" but I've got loads of flexibility and can work-to-live happily.It really depends on what you want from your job/career. You can probably go "further" as a project manager in the traditional "career ladder" terminology, but it'll quite quickly become non-technical.
Edited by ewenm on Wednesday 7th September 20:30
Thank's for the insight's so far,my current position is my first "proper" job after having a dozen or so student job's over the last 8 year's around the retail market,so i'm still finding my feet in what I think I can,and want to do.
I've heard about that book a few time's now,do think it's worth me buying it now,or loan a copy for a read through.
I'm a hands on type of person,like to get involved and get things done,I would say i'm fairly technical,could get much better with practise & experience,however i'm also quite good at organising and arranging things to get done,like car meet's/event's and trip's abroad with friends (they're not on a work scale but everthing i've done has always gone down with ease and got people to do things if/when I needed them to do stuff.)
I'm based right behind the MIM team at work,and also have the Problem/Change management team's on the same floor,my desk is seperated from the rest of the service desk by those teams,and I've seen them carry out their roles and how they process cases/requests etc
I should be entitled to get work to put me onto a Prince2 course as they already offer it to other staff that are in management/team leader roles,though would need ITIL which i'm just in the process of finishing off now,though will also consider and will do other courses if I need to progress further.
My friend from Symantec did tell me that I'd need Prince2 at the minimum level of qualification,and would then need to shadow someone for a while before I would be let loose on my own if I was to get into a position within that company.
On a side note,I've also got an itch to work abroad,so would ideally need a PM qualification that is recognised world wide,and not just within the UK,i've read the other Prince2 topic's already.
Again,thanks for the help and advise,interesting to see the view's and experience of people who are within the position's that I'm considering
I've heard about that book a few time's now,do think it's worth me buying it now,or loan a copy for a read through.
I'm a hands on type of person,like to get involved and get things done,I would say i'm fairly technical,could get much better with practise & experience,however i'm also quite good at organising and arranging things to get done,like car meet's/event's and trip's abroad with friends (they're not on a work scale but everthing i've done has always gone down with ease and got people to do things if/when I needed them to do stuff.)
I'm based right behind the MIM team at work,and also have the Problem/Change management team's on the same floor,my desk is seperated from the rest of the service desk by those teams,and I've seen them carry out their roles and how they process cases/requests etc
I should be entitled to get work to put me onto a Prince2 course as they already offer it to other staff that are in management/team leader roles,though would need ITIL which i'm just in the process of finishing off now,though will also consider and will do other courses if I need to progress further.
My friend from Symantec did tell me that I'd need Prince2 at the minimum level of qualification,and would then need to shadow someone for a while before I would be let loose on my own if I was to get into a position within that company.
On a side note,I've also got an itch to work abroad,so would ideally need a PM qualification that is recognised world wide,and not just within the UK,i've read the other Prince2 topic's already.
Again,thanks for the help and advise,interesting to see the view's and experience of people who are within the position's that I'm considering
JapFreak786 said:
...
I've heard about that book a few time's now,do think it's worth me buying it now,or loan a copy for a read through....
Any decent (ie central) library should have a copy. But copies do pop up at book sales. £1 v £20-ish as far as I recall. As I said, the main content doesn't change that much so a not too old copy will be fine. To get the best from it you need to read and work through it. If it was me I'd try pick up an old copy - but then I can be stingy on things like that! Whichever - it's a book that'll you keep coming back to.I've heard about that book a few time's now,do think it's worth me buying it now,or loan a copy for a read through....
Do you like dealing with people? - Yes
Do you like influencing people? - Like to advise and get people to see the broader picture and not focused just upon their view,but yes i guess?
Would you like to lead a team? - Have lead team's before while being a team leader at previous retail based jobs, and enjoyed it
Do you like solving peoples problems? - Yes like to help people where I can and give assistance where possible
Can you put up with the politic of the workplace? - Yes, I don't bring work home with me 99% of the time and the second i'm out of the building I'm not in "work" mode no more, seen enough happen since I've started with this company, and from previous positions
So,how difficult is project management? Spoke to my friend last night and he still recommending me to get into Pre-sales engineering role before getting into a PM position,if I do that is..
Do you like influencing people? - Like to advise and get people to see the broader picture and not focused just upon their view,but yes i guess?
Would you like to lead a team? - Have lead team's before while being a team leader at previous retail based jobs, and enjoyed it
Do you like solving peoples problems? - Yes like to help people where I can and give assistance where possible
Can you put up with the politic of the workplace? - Yes, I don't bring work home with me 99% of the time and the second i'm out of the building I'm not in "work" mode no more, seen enough happen since I've started with this company, and from previous positions
So,how difficult is project management? Spoke to my friend last night and he still recommending me to get into Pre-sales engineering role before getting into a PM position,if I do that is..
JapFreak786 said:
Do you like dealing with people? - Yes
Do you like influencing people? - Like to advise and get people to see the broader picture and not focused just upon their view,but yes i guess?
Would you like to lead a team? - Have lead team's before while being a team leader at previous retail based jobs, and enjoyed it
Do you like solving peoples problems? - Yes like to help people where I can and give assistance where possible
Can you put up with the politic of the workplace? - Yes, I don't bring work home with me 99% of the time and the second i'm out of the building I'm not in "work" mode no more, seen enough happen since I've started with this company, and from previous positions
So,how difficult is project management? Spoke to my friend last night and he still recommending me to get into Pre-sales engineering role before getting into a PM position,if I do that is..
I went through a similar situation several years ago. Personally I am not a 'completer finisher' therefore a Project Management job positively terrified me. I came out of some pyschometric test as an 'analytical pursuader' which is very accurate to my true personality.Do you like influencing people? - Like to advise and get people to see the broader picture and not focused just upon their view,but yes i guess?
Would you like to lead a team? - Have lead team's before while being a team leader at previous retail based jobs, and enjoyed it
Do you like solving peoples problems? - Yes like to help people where I can and give assistance where possible
Can you put up with the politic of the workplace? - Yes, I don't bring work home with me 99% of the time and the second i'm out of the building I'm not in "work" mode no more, seen enough happen since I've started with this company, and from previous positions
So,how difficult is project management? Spoke to my friend last night and he still recommending me to get into Pre-sales engineering role before getting into a PM position,if I do that is..
I have been enjoying pre sales for about 5 years now.. and i have to say, I love every minute. I cannot recommend it enough with one caveat in mind... you really really need to be the right kind of person. Both technical and commercial, firm when the sales guy is promising the world, but flexible and able to provide solutions to problems faced without every really saying 'no' outright.
Also if you are any good, you will earn substantially more as pre sales than as a PM, (Contracting aside). Do a quick search on www.cwjobs.co.uk or www.monster.co.uk for Pre sales and then project manager.
Edit, Pre Sales wouldnt really be a normal route into project management. Again based on personalities, IMO.
Edited by NotKenBlock on Friday 9th September 15:33
lestag said:
OP
Do you like dealing with people?
Do you like influencing people?
Would you like to lead a team?
Do you like solving peoples problems?
Can you put up with the politic of the workplace?
RephrasedDo you like dealing with people?
Do you like influencing people?
Would you like to lead a team?
Do you like solving peoples problems?
Can you put up with the politic of the workplace?
Do you like dealing with people? Are you comfortable and able working with people who run the full gamet of character types across a team/client and even within themsleves exhibit a variety of traits during the course of a project? Can you adapt your communication style according to the types of people you are dealing with (e.g. tech v non-tech management)? Can you successfully explain something quite complex to your grandmother in such a way that she would understand it? Are you a very good listener? Can you successfully manage peoples' expectations - whether with good news or bad?
Do you like influencing people? Are you able to influence someone's behaviour into getting what you want/need when you need it, in situations where you have no managerial authority/responsibility over them and, when the person you need to influence is on the client side, your needs are one of several more important internal needs which they have to satisfy?
Would you like to lead a team? Usually your project team will be allocated to you. Are you able to very quickly get them on board to the project and working together as a unit? Often your project team will not be dedicated to you. Are you able to negotiate shared resources with other projects successfully so that none of the projects are adversely impacted? Can you consistently act in a controlled, collected and effective manner - and ensure that your team does likewise - even if the rest of the world seems to be running around like headless chickens?
Do you like solving peoples problems? You will have to troubleshoot - are you good at it? Can you reduce and simplify problems? Can you solve a business problem even if it may not be directly to you - but it does impact your ability to successfully deliver/complete the project? Can you spot and handle a hospital pass (intended or otherwise)?
Can you put up with the politic of the workplace? Are you able to quickly spot, understand and navigate your way through the politics at the client's end surrounding your project? Are you able to prevent your client's internal politics from scuppering your project?
You wouldn't happen to work in an office in Bourneville would you? 
I'm in a similar situation, I'm an Oracle DBA and I'm considering my next step. I'm considering the step into management, however, not every techie is suited to it. I have an opportuniy to dip my toe in the water and I intend to take it. I feel that it's difficult to come back if you get it wrong, I've seen too many people find themselves in a management position that they're not comfortable with and no way back.
I'm in a similar situation, I'm an Oracle DBA and I'm considering my next step. I'm considering the step into management, however, not every techie is suited to it. I have an opportuniy to dip my toe in the water and I intend to take it. I feel that it's difficult to come back if you get it wrong, I've seen too many people find themselves in a management position that they're not comfortable with and no way back.
72EuropaTC said:
Rephrased
Do you like dealing with people? Are you comfortable and able working with people who run the full gamet of character types across a team/client and even within themsleves exhibit a variety of traits during the course of a project? Can you adapt your communication style according to the types of people you are dealing with (e.g. tech v non-tech management)? Can you successfully explain something quite complex to your grandmother in such a way that she would understand it? Are you a very good listener? Can you successfully manage peoples' expectations - whether with good news or bad?
Do you like influencing people? Are you able to influence someone's behaviour into getting what you want/need when you need it, in situations where you have no managerial authority/responsibility over them and, when the person you need to influence is on the client side, your needs are one of several more important internal needs which they have to satisfy?
Would you like to lead a team? Usually your project team will be allocated to you. Are you able to very quickly get them on board to the project and working together as a unit? Often your project team will not be dedicated to you. Are you able to negotiate shared resources with other projects successfully so that none of the projects are adversely impacted? Can you consistently act in a controlled, collected and effective manner - and ensure that your team does likewise - even if the rest of the world seems to be running around like headless chickens?
Do you like solving peoples problems? You will have to troubleshoot - are you good at it? Can you reduce and simplify problems? Can you solve a business problem even if it may not be directly to you - but it does impact your ability to successfully deliver/complete the project? Can you spot and handle a hospital pass (intended or otherwise)?
Can you put up with the politic of the workplace? Are you able to quickly spot, understand and navigate your way through the politics at the client's end surrounding your project? Are you able to prevent your client's internal politics from scuppering your project?
This is a very good explanation of project managers. I highlight the bit on bold - because its a very good point. A good project manager can achieve this, regardless of seniority. Do you like dealing with people? Are you comfortable and able working with people who run the full gamet of character types across a team/client and even within themsleves exhibit a variety of traits during the course of a project? Can you adapt your communication style according to the types of people you are dealing with (e.g. tech v non-tech management)? Can you successfully explain something quite complex to your grandmother in such a way that she would understand it? Are you a very good listener? Can you successfully manage peoples' expectations - whether with good news or bad?
Do you like influencing people? Are you able to influence someone's behaviour into getting what you want/need when you need it, in situations where you have no managerial authority/responsibility over them and, when the person you need to influence is on the client side, your needs are one of several more important internal needs which they have to satisfy?
Would you like to lead a team? Usually your project team will be allocated to you. Are you able to very quickly get them on board to the project and working together as a unit? Often your project team will not be dedicated to you. Are you able to negotiate shared resources with other projects successfully so that none of the projects are adversely impacted? Can you consistently act in a controlled, collected and effective manner - and ensure that your team does likewise - even if the rest of the world seems to be running around like headless chickens?
Do you like solving peoples problems? You will have to troubleshoot - are you good at it? Can you reduce and simplify problems? Can you solve a business problem even if it may not be directly to you - but it does impact your ability to successfully deliver/complete the project? Can you spot and handle a hospital pass (intended or otherwise)?
Can you put up with the politic of the workplace? Are you able to quickly spot, understand and navigate your way through the politics at the client's end surrounding your project? Are you able to prevent your client's internal politics from scuppering your project?
Getting people to do what I want - Yes I would say that I have done that before and can and will do that again if I needed to.
I live in Birmingham but commute to Derby daily for work,based near Pride Park currently.
Have been keeping an eye on jobs on those site's,but never for pre-sales or PM position's but generally helpdesk/support based roles,though will be expanding what I search for now.
Again,thanks for the help - Will keep everyone posted on what I do and where I am,I've set my goals for where I want to be in 6 month's and would like to acheive that.
I live in Birmingham but commute to Derby daily for work,based near Pride Park currently.
Have been keeping an eye on jobs on those site's,but never for pre-sales or PM position's but generally helpdesk/support based roles,though will be expanding what I search for now.
Again,thanks for the help
- Will keep everyone posted on what I do and where I am,I've set my goals for where I want to be in 6 month's and would like to acheive that.
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