Working abroad
Discussion
I'm 25 years old, I work in the Construction industry and I'm considering the possibility of plying my trade abroad for a year or two. I thought while I'm still relatively young and not married with kids, now would be the prime opportunity.
My background is as a CAD engineer, but for the past two years I have been running the estimating department. I specialise in off-site manufacturing, so designing and constructing building services on pre-fab frames for install onsite, also known as Modular.
I don't have a degree, instead opting to do a HVAC HND apprenticeship, but I've noticed most of the engineering jobs abroad ask for a degree. Not to underplay the value of a degree, but I know far more than most my age who have spent their time at university and have far more 'real world' knowledge and experience. Would the lack of a degree still work against me?
How easy is it to gain employment abroad and is it difficult? My main concerns are the red tape involved in moving over and working there. I was looking at Australia or the Middle East. It would probably be short-term, 1-2 years.
Can anyone give me advice or share their experiences of working abroad?
My background is as a CAD engineer, but for the past two years I have been running the estimating department. I specialise in off-site manufacturing, so designing and constructing building services on pre-fab frames for install onsite, also known as Modular.
I don't have a degree, instead opting to do a HVAC HND apprenticeship, but I've noticed most of the engineering jobs abroad ask for a degree. Not to underplay the value of a degree, but I know far more than most my age who have spent their time at university and have far more 'real world' knowledge and experience. Would the lack of a degree still work against me?
How easy is it to gain employment abroad and is it difficult? My main concerns are the red tape involved in moving over and working there. I was looking at Australia or the Middle East. It would probably be short-term, 1-2 years.
Can anyone give me advice or share their experiences of working abroad?
I'm surprised how little response you've had to this question, since there do seem to be quite a few that work abroad.
Some thoughts from my experience, which doesn't share many features of your description, other than being 'abroad'...
I wouldn't have thought the lack of a degree would be a show stopper - if, as you say, you've got relevant experience and expertise, that is what will count.
I'd be tempted to 'plan' on longer than you suggest - you might hate it and come home in that time, or love it and never return other than to visit family and friends! Quite a few of the guys I'm working with (of several nationalities) are career expats and have worked all over the world.
Make sure you get a description of your package - so working arrangements, salary and allowances, annual leave etc.
Look into and manage the tax implications of what you're doing and where you're working and make sure you do establish contact with your tax office to sort it out, it can take ages by the way!
Problems and issues?
depends on your home/family life et, Skype etc are great for keeping in touch, as is the much derided Facebook, I can see what the family/friends are up to and they can see stuff I've done and uploaded.
establishing a cycle for what you do with your vacation time - return to UK or use it to explore yet more countries?
language - probably not an issue for the options you mention, but something to bear in mind. A factor that can be unexpected on that could be 'extra' languages that you'd not expected to have to deal with or deal with people using. The project I'm working on has English and Russian as the official languages, but because the contractor companies are French, a lot of French guys here and a lot of French spoken.
On places to look for opportunites - I've not a clue for your line of work since mine is quite different!
Footnote to summarise my expat experience: After many years in UK got opportunity to work at a unique site on a unique problem (especially considering my line of work) so joined the project 4 years ago. First few months were in Paris, now in Ukraine (hence Russian being an official language), overall a very positive experience that I have no regrets over, one thing to always bear in mind though: what should be easy can often be extremely difficult and complicated (even going shopping for food for instance) and just go with the flow.
Some thoughts from my experience, which doesn't share many features of your description, other than being 'abroad'...
I wouldn't have thought the lack of a degree would be a show stopper - if, as you say, you've got relevant experience and expertise, that is what will count.
I'd be tempted to 'plan' on longer than you suggest - you might hate it and come home in that time, or love it and never return other than to visit family and friends! Quite a few of the guys I'm working with (of several nationalities) are career expats and have worked all over the world.
Make sure you get a description of your package - so working arrangements, salary and allowances, annual leave etc.
Look into and manage the tax implications of what you're doing and where you're working and make sure you do establish contact with your tax office to sort it out, it can take ages by the way!
Problems and issues?
depends on your home/family life et, Skype etc are great for keeping in touch, as is the much derided Facebook, I can see what the family/friends are up to and they can see stuff I've done and uploaded.
establishing a cycle for what you do with your vacation time - return to UK or use it to explore yet more countries?
language - probably not an issue for the options you mention, but something to bear in mind. A factor that can be unexpected on that could be 'extra' languages that you'd not expected to have to deal with or deal with people using. The project I'm working on has English and Russian as the official languages, but because the contractor companies are French, a lot of French guys here and a lot of French spoken.
On places to look for opportunites - I've not a clue for your line of work since mine is quite different!
Footnote to summarise my expat experience: After many years in UK got opportunity to work at a unique site on a unique problem (especially considering my line of work) so joined the project 4 years ago. First few months were in Paris, now in Ukraine (hence Russian being an official language), overall a very positive experience that I have no regrets over, one thing to always bear in mind though: what should be easy can often be extremely difficult and complicated (even going shopping for food for instance) and just go with the flow.
I live and work in Barcelona having been asked to come here by my employer. Easy to get work? Well my wife teaches English and could get many more hours if she wanted to. Finding well paid employment is easier if you know the language, but English speaking is a great and portable skill. For your specific industry I cannot help, but some things we have gained are:
It´s a great experience to learn another language, to experience a different culture and it also gives perspective on whats important to you as you will be away from friends/family for long periods.
It´s easy to stay in touch through skype/e-mail and people will want to come and visit as well
A real desire to travel within the country we are in and learn about the history/culture. The food and shopping are different (typically you buy 4-5 times a week and fresh food and supermarkets and most shops are closed on Sundays. It´s the small things which I notice and really enjoy and I am sure that people experience this in many places.
I can only recommend living abroad, it´s not for everyone, but you sound like you are already mentally ready, so it´s just about the physical location.
Good luck
It´s a great experience to learn another language, to experience a different culture and it also gives perspective on whats important to you as you will be away from friends/family for long periods.
It´s easy to stay in touch through skype/e-mail and people will want to come and visit as well
A real desire to travel within the country we are in and learn about the history/culture. The food and shopping are different (typically you buy 4-5 times a week and fresh food and supermarkets and most shops are closed on Sundays. It´s the small things which I notice and really enjoy and I am sure that people experience this in many places.
I can only recommend living abroad, it´s not for everyone, but you sound like you are already mentally ready, so it´s just about the physical location.
Good luck
Interesting, I'm currently dealing with a few modular subcontractors at the moment (student accomodatio specialists) I am a contractors QS. Looked into working in the middle east, I like you do not have a degree. May prove to be a showstopper as they seem to want this as a matter of course. The money in the middle east is phenomenal right now tho. Your in quite a speciailised area, what have you been applying for?
smokey145 said:
Interesting, I'm currently dealing with a few modular subcontractors at the moment (student accomodatio specialists) I am a contractors QS. Looked into working in the middle east, I like you do not have a degree. May prove to be a showstopper as they seem to want this as a matter of course. The money in the middle east is phenomenal right now tho. Your in quite a speciailised area, what have you been applying for?
There are some grim areas in the middle east though and it isn't all 5 star hotels and Friday brunches. Most of it is actually a sh*thole which is why they pay the big bucks. Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi, Kuwait. Fine if you don't want a more sociable life. Dubai for me is the only place that balances everything but you still end up paying as its expensive to live there.
Sorry for the delayed reply folks, I assumed this thread had sunk into the abyss.
Really I'd like to move into prefab abroad, maybe as a mechanical engineer, estimating or securing projects. I'd prefer not to go back to drafting as I found the role a little dull (not to offend any drafties, it just wasn't me).
smokey145 said:
Interesting, I'm currently dealing with a few modular subcontractors at the moment (student accomodatio specialists) I am a contractors QS. Looked into working in the middle east, I like you do not have a degree. May prove to be a showstopper as they seem to want this as a matter of course. The money in the middle east is phenomenal right now tho. Your in quite a speciailised area, what have you been applying for?
I haven't really applied for anything as yet. Yeah, modular building services is quite a niche market so I'm hoping that experience will aid my chances of securing work abroad. Coupled with my AutoCAD experience and Estimating Manager, I'm hoping that gives me a broad choice of jobs.Really I'd like to move into prefab abroad, maybe as a mechanical engineer, estimating or securing projects. I'd prefer not to go back to drafting as I found the role a little dull (not to offend any drafties, it just wasn't me).
torqueofthedevil said:
Anyone know if there are many jobs for site managers in the middle east?!? I never see any advertised but they must need them. Libya should have a few jobs over the next few years.
They don't advertise the good ones. Speak to a recruiter in the middle east (Dubai). Or try someone like Maxim Recruitment. craigb84 said:
They don't advertise the good ones. Speak to a recruiter in the middle east (Dubai). Or try someone like Maxim Recruitment.
Post in the Middle East forum...quite a few peple other there these days.OP I wouldn't move abroad for a year or 2...It'll take most of that time before you're settled!
craigb84 said:
Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi, Kuwait. Fine if you don't want a more sociable life. Dubai for me is the only place that balances everything but you still end up paying as its expensive to live there.
Typical Dubai resident's view...Cities in the Middle East vary in terms of their ex-pat lifestyle compatibility, but I certainly wouldn't group Qatar & Bahrain in with Saudi
Mattt said:
Typical Dubai resident's view...
Cities in the Middle East vary in terms of their ex-pat lifestyle compatibility, but I certainly wouldn't group Qatar & Bahrain in with Saudi
Ok, maybe Saudi isn't fair to use as...well...it's Saudi. I've not been, I've no intentions of going but I've known plenty of people that have and (apart from the nurses that go and insist its amazing) and aside for working on an Aramco compound every single person I've known hated it. So...that's Saudi. Cities in the Middle East vary in terms of their ex-pat lifestyle compatibility, but I certainly wouldn't group Qatar & Bahrain in with Saudi
Bahrain. Never been, probably a lovely place to live until it all went off last year and everyone with half a brain ditched out. So that's 'Business Friendly Bahrain' as the adverts go. Given their recent history that place does boot fill me with confidence. Plus you get all the lovely Saudis crossing the bridge for the weekend to go and get trollied and trash the city on a weekend.
Qatar....I have been for a short period and detested every minute from stepping foot off the plane. I'll make no bones in that I thought it was a craphole. It would take 'Saudi money' to drag me somewhere like that.
Kuwait......again, everyone I know that goes can't wait to get out at the first shot.
I'd personally rate Abu Dhabi ever so slightly higher than Qatar.
So yeah. Probably a 'typical Dubai resident' point of view but it offers safety, comfort, luxury etc in one very nice little package that the other cities I've experienced cant.
On the flip side one could work in the likes of Kuwait during the week and get the Thursday night flight back to DXB. That seems to be quite popular in our game now.
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