Gadgets for new boat
Discussion
HMS Simpo is currently building and I have a dangerous amount of latitude for modifications to the standard spec.
Two gadgets are worthy of ponderation.
Gadget A: Speedometer/depth sounder. The standard unit gets speed data from a little jobby in the water and even the MD admits they are not much good. Hence I'm looking for a small, smart unit that will go in the dashboard to tell me how fast I'm going by GPS, and how much drowning material there is under the hull. I don't need to find fish and I don't need to plot a course to the Azores, just speed and depth will do fine.
Gadget B: An LCD/LED TV, 17-20" but it needs to be 12V. For some reason if you search for '12V' all brand names vanish...
Two gadgets are worthy of ponderation.
Gadget A: Speedometer/depth sounder. The standard unit gets speed data from a little jobby in the water and even the MD admits they are not much good. Hence I'm looking for a small, smart unit that will go in the dashboard to tell me how fast I'm going by GPS, and how much drowning material there is under the hull. I don't need to find fish and I don't need to plot a course to the Azores, just speed and depth will do fine.
Gadget B: An LCD/LED TV, 17-20" but it needs to be 12V. For some reason if you search for '12V' all brand names vanish...
Don't forget speed through the water and speed over ground are two different things. If you are looking to avoid speed limits it's worth knowing. 
http://www.furneauxriddall.com/acatalog/GPS_Speedo...
Also with GPS speedos you will struggle to find anything that is specifically designed to measure and display the difference between walking, slithering and dawdling pace.
So you will have to put up with an instrument that suggests you have a much more powerful steed under you.
Maybe something from the Gaffrig range would be appropriate.
Depth sounders are also a problem for you due to the lack of a decent bottom to get a read off. Don't be surprised to fit one and constantly get spurious readings from soft mud and weed.
In hull transducers are the best way to go as they can't get knocked off / damaged but you need a solid piece of hull to go through. If it's sandwich then the core needs cutting out in that area or it won't work.
You still get the problem of weed / slime build up underneath which will deteriorate the signal but it's generally not as bad.
The other way to go is to have a stern mounted paddlewheel / sounder unit that can be lifted to be cleaned, but of course that needs to be out of the way of stern thruster wash etc.
For my money I think Mr Shetland ought to look at an integrated gps / depth / instrumentation system that does all your information in one unit. Would make for an extremely clean dash arrangement.
As for tellies, don't be fooled into buying specific units for the boat at daft prices. Most TV's actually run off 12v anyway just a case of whether they have the transformer internal or not.
My JVC runs off either 12v or 240v simply by swapping the input plug over. A word of warning though. My 12v is regulated as it steps down from the main 24v supply. Don't just wire it up to your 12v sysem without a small regulator as the telly may not like the 15v stuffed in by your alternator or the voltage drop as your batteries go down.
Right onto more important matters. What barbeque arrangements have you considered and how will you be manufacturing ice for the G&T?
http://www.furneauxriddall.com/acatalog/GPS_Speedo...
Also with GPS speedos you will struggle to find anything that is specifically designed to measure and display the difference between walking, slithering and dawdling pace.
So you will have to put up with an instrument that suggests you have a much more powerful steed under you.
Maybe something from the Gaffrig range would be appropriate.
Depth sounders are also a problem for you due to the lack of a decent bottom to get a read off. Don't be surprised to fit one and constantly get spurious readings from soft mud and weed.
In hull transducers are the best way to go as they can't get knocked off / damaged but you need a solid piece of hull to go through. If it's sandwich then the core needs cutting out in that area or it won't work.
You still get the problem of weed / slime build up underneath which will deteriorate the signal but it's generally not as bad.
The other way to go is to have a stern mounted paddlewheel / sounder unit that can be lifted to be cleaned, but of course that needs to be out of the way of stern thruster wash etc.
For my money I think Mr Shetland ought to look at an integrated gps / depth / instrumentation system that does all your information in one unit. Would make for an extremely clean dash arrangement.
As for tellies, don't be fooled into buying specific units for the boat at daft prices. Most TV's actually run off 12v anyway just a case of whether they have the transformer internal or not.
My JVC runs off either 12v or 240v simply by swapping the input plug over. A word of warning though. My 12v is regulated as it steps down from the main 24v supply. Don't just wire it up to your 12v sysem without a small regulator as the telly may not like the 15v stuffed in by your alternator or the voltage drop as your batteries go down.
Right onto more important matters. What barbeque arrangements have you considered and how will you be manufacturing ice for the G&T?
How about an inverter?
A 150W one would support any LED TV up to about 22" size.
Then you can power TV or radio or laptop and charge your phone.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/12v-150w-can-invertor-with...
A 150W one would support any LED TV up to about 22" size.
Then you can power TV or radio or laptop and charge your phone.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/12v-150w-can-invertor-with...
MOTORVATOR said:
Don't forget speed through the water and speed over ground are two different things. If you are looking to avoid speed limits it's worth knowing.
If the EA Filth pull me over I'll remind them that the speed limit exists to to prevent bank erosion, therefore it's speed in the water that matters not speed vs land. Or if I was going downstream, the reverse of course and it was an illusion caused by the parallax with the reeds....MOTORVATOR said:
Also with GPS speedos you will struggle to find anything that is specifically designed to measure and display the difference between walking, slithering and dawdling pace.
The satnav app in a friend's mobile seem to work very well even down to 0.1mph increments IIRC, so it can be done but I guess is down to software.MOTORVATOR said:
In hull transducers are the best way to go as they can't get knocked off / damaged but you need a solid piece of hull to go through. If it's sandwich then the core needs cutting out in that area or it won't work.
It's built into the hull at the rear - though IMHO it should be at the front as on a river that's the bit you use to test the depth!MOTORVATOR said:
The other way to go is to have a stern mounted paddlewheel / sounder unit that can be lifted to be cleaned, but of course that needs to be out of the way of stern thruster wash etc.
I'll mention it, thanks. MOTORVATOR said:
For my money I think Mr Shetland ought to look at an integrated gps / depth / instrumentation system that does all your information in one unit. Would make for an extremely clean dash arrangement.
Bearing in mind the usage and engine, have you any links for consideration? Yanmar provide their instrumentation in a rectangular panel, but Shetland are looking at splitting it up and placing the units discretely in the (walnut) dash which will look much nicer. They're redesigning the dash and instrumentation right now so any good ideas would be welcome all round 
MOTORVATOR said:
As for tellies, don't be fooled into buying specific units for the boat at daft prices. Most TV's actually run off 12v anyway just a case of whether they have the transformer internal or not.
Indeed, I have a 15" LCD upstairs which has a separate transformer and a 12V wire. It's just a question of whether screens in the 17-20" range are the same - I'll have to take a walk round Comet etc and ask. This one on eBay looked OK for £210 but again, no brand! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330621539964?ssPageName=...MOTORVATOR said:
Right onto more important matters. What barbeque arrangements have you considered and how will you be manufacturing ice for the G&T?
Well, bearing in mind I'm not Jamie Oliver, for cooking you've got a choice of oven, grill, 3-burner hob, microwave and engine exhaust. In yesterday's planning meeting we decided to move the bathroom from the narrow side to the wide side and use the module from the 29, which means we can extend the kitchen which means we can increase the fridge from 50L to 80L so you should have room to make an ice cube. All for you of course G&T will be in the drinks cupboard (another Simpo addition!)
ctdctd said:
How about an inverter? A 150W one would support any LED TV up to about 22" size.
Then you can power TV or radio or laptop and charge your phone.
There's an invertor already on board for the microwave, and two 13A sockets. However I wanted to avoid this route as every time you convert electricity you lose some, and battery power is critical. Already the (Waeco 80L) fridge is electric and when I enquired about a gas one he didn't seem keen on it, not sure why. Then you can power TV or radio or laptop and charge your phone.
Which reminds me, I must ask what power the invertor is and whether square or sine wave. So many details!
Simpo Two said:
MOTORVATOR said:
For my money I think Mr Shetland ought to look at an integrated gps / depth / instrumentation system that does all your information in one unit. Would make for an extremely clean dash arrangement.
Bearing in mind the usage and engine, have you any links for consideration? Yanmar provide their instrumentation in a rectangular panel, but Shetland are looking at splitting it up and placing the units discretely in the (walnut) dash which will look much nicer. They're redesigning the dash and instrumentation right now so any good ideas would be welcome all round Most people would set up a nmea 2000 network and display everything through their one or multiple nav sets but for you if you don't want an all singing and dancing set if you were to say have a bank of 2 of these:
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=11625#gmi1...
You could configure that to show revs / speed / depth / rudder angle and heading on one whilst the other showed data such as oil press / temp / fuel / water etc on another.
Hell you could even set it up to show the level of gin left in the bottle.
Shuffles off to investigate flow sensors to monitor consumption rates of Vodka, Pimms, Gin, Rum and Beer all to be shown alongside my nav data. I will return
MOTORVATOR said:
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=11625#gmi1...
You could configure that to show revs / speed / depth / rudder angle and heading on one whilst the other showed data such as oil press / temp / fuel / water etc on another.]
I think I saw that but hadn't realised it was so multi-function. As you say two would do everything but I prefer the 'lots of little round dials with needles' look. But one, doing the desired functions plus a couple more, might be an idea. I'll suggest it.You could configure that to show revs / speed / depth / rudder angle and heading on one whilst the other showed data such as oil press / temp / fuel / water etc on another.]
mickrick said:
Inverter? Microwave? Telly! 
It's a BOAT ffs! 
Yea, I tried the 'camping' style on my last boat, with a cold water handpump and the only electrical items being four light bulbs. Nice to get back to basics, but boiling a kettle to wash your hair in a tiny kitchen sink with a plastic cup was just too basic, and coolboxes suck. It's a BOAT ffs! Now I want something I can stay over on in comfort
mickrick said:
Inverter? Microwave? Telly! It's a BOAT ffs!
"Yea, I tried the 'camping' style on my last boat, with a cold water handpump and the only electrical items being four light bulbs. Nice to get back to basics, but boiling a kettle to wash your hair in a tiny kitchen sink with a plastic cup was just too basic, and coolboxes suck. It's a BOAT ffs! Now I want something I can stay over on in comfort
Wash your hair! You do that by jumping into the nice warm torquise water don't you?
You don't need electrikery to heat the water, you can connect a calorifier to your engine, and heat your water very efficiently just by using the engine.
Inverters are the work of the devil, they eat up a massive amount of your house battery power very quickly, so you'll need to increase the size of your house bank, which has a knock on effect with your charging system.
There's a very interesting article by Steve D'Antonio in this months (Oct/Nov) issue of proffesional boatbuilder, it's worth a read. You could probably teach your builder a thing or two afer reading it.
There's a lot to be said for keeping things simple and minimalistic.
Personaly I'm happy on a boat with a book a bottle, and a Magma BBQ.
Sorry I messed up the quotes!
Edited by mickrick on Sunday 23 October 16:55
I am fully aware of calorifiers is - my father's 1961 cruiser had one (though my 1973 version didn't) - and the new boat has one fitted as standard. I was thinking ahead to first thing in the morning and not wanting to wait 20-30 mins with the engine running (or method A, boiling a kettle). However I'm reliably informed that the calorifier is well lagged and will keep 20L of water hot overnight from the previous days' cruising.
What power source do you recommend for fridges? Gas seems the most sensible to me, being in effectively limitless quantity, but everyone seems to prefer 12V these days. I'm told that a new Waeco 50L fridge can be left on all night and the engine will start next day - and there's a thingy that stops it taking too much juice. But it is still a 'weak link' IMO.
What power source do you recommend for fridges? Gas seems the most sensible to me, being in effectively limitless quantity, but everyone seems to prefer 12V these days. I'm told that a new Waeco 50L fridge can be left on all night and the engine will start next day - and there's a thingy that stops it taking too much juice. But it is still a 'weak link' IMO.
Sorry, I didn't mean to belittle your boat knowlage. Although I don't know how much you know. But things have come on a bit since 1961.
I think anything you can do to reduce on board power consumption is a good thing.
I agree, gas has to be better than using precious battery power, personaly I would look at an engine driven compressor and holding plates.
There was an excellent system on the 46ft ketch I did a circumnavigation on, there was a freezer box, with a thermostatcly controlled flap into the cool box. The holding plate was in the freezer, and we could freeze fish down with running the auxilary engine for an hour a day. If I remeber correctly, the compressor was made by adler barbour?
But it's all down to personal choice at the end of the day.
I spend nearly every day of my life maintaining and running a 27m gin palace, so I know how much time it takes looking after all these gadgets, and of course the problems they cause when they stop working. (Don't even mention vac toilets with PCB's!)
I suppose that's way I shy away from it, for spending precious free time on my own boat.
Better to enjoy time on the water than hanging upside down in the bilge.
I think anything you can do to reduce on board power consumption is a good thing.
I agree, gas has to be better than using precious battery power, personaly I would look at an engine driven compressor and holding plates.
There was an excellent system on the 46ft ketch I did a circumnavigation on, there was a freezer box, with a thermostatcly controlled flap into the cool box. The holding plate was in the freezer, and we could freeze fish down with running the auxilary engine for an hour a day. If I remeber correctly, the compressor was made by adler barbour?
But it's all down to personal choice at the end of the day.
I spend nearly every day of my life maintaining and running a 27m gin palace, so I know how much time it takes looking after all these gadgets, and of course the problems they cause when they stop working. (Don't even mention vac toilets with PCB's!)
I suppose that's way I shy away from it, for spending precious free time on my own boat.
Better to enjoy time on the water than hanging upside down in the bilge.
mickrick said:
I agree, gas has to be better than using precious battery power, personaly I would look at an engine driven compressor and holding plates. There was an excellent system on the 46ft ketch I did a circumnavigation on, there was a freezer box, with a thermostatcly controlled flap into the cool box. The holding plate was in the freezer, and we could freeze fish down with running the auxilary engine for an hour a day. If I remeber correctly, the compressor was made by adler barbour?
Blimey! But it sounds very big and expensive - probably not suitable in a 27' cruiser, but I'd be interested to see any links if only to rule it out.Forget inverters, 12V telly, 12V fridge, pair of decent 135AH batteries, uprated alternator, Magma barbeque/grill, rip the electric/vacuum toilets out and replace with manuals.
Then you can spend your time enjoying the boat rather than worrying about gas explosions and bunged up bogs.
Then you can spend your time enjoying the boat rather than worrying about gas explosions and bunged up bogs.
What actually is the efficiency loss via an invertor?
For example you can either go:
(12V unit) > (battery)
or
(240V unit) > (inverter) > (battery)
The impression I get is that 12V appliances (thinking TV/microwave) are ugly, quirky and 4x the price.
http://www.marinemegastore.com/product.asp?pf_id=U...
£540 plays £49
For example you can either go:
(12V unit) > (battery)
or
(240V unit) > (inverter) > (battery)
The impression I get is that 12V appliances (thinking TV/microwave) are ugly, quirky and 4x the price.
http://www.marinemegastore.com/product.asp?pf_id=U...
£540 plays £49
I did a quick Google, and there doesn't seem to be much info on the Adler Barbour engine driven compressors. They now seem to be owned by Domitec, who seem to own everything these days!
But the boat I was on, that was over 16 years ago now.
I found some info on Seafrost, which is the same system I was talking about.
http://www.seafrost.com/ed.htm
You have to run your engine anyway, so why not get something for free, without uneccesary cycling of your house bank? Plus a bit of load on the ME will do it good.
That's if you have room in the engine space for the compressor of course. I wasn't sure what size boat you have. But as it's a stink boat you should have a bit more room than one with a stick and flappy things.
Of course when you see the light, and cross over from the dark side to a stick and flappy things boat, you'll be too busy playing with bits of string to watch telly!
Regarding inverters, you get nothing for nothing, there's always a loss. We have two on the plastic fantastic, they are there for emergencies only, even with two 800 a/h banks!
But the boat I was on, that was over 16 years ago now.
I found some info on Seafrost, which is the same system I was talking about.
http://www.seafrost.com/ed.htm
You have to run your engine anyway, so why not get something for free, without uneccesary cycling of your house bank? Plus a bit of load on the ME will do it good.
That's if you have room in the engine space for the compressor of course. I wasn't sure what size boat you have. But as it's a stink boat you should have a bit more room than one with a stick and flappy things.
Of course when you see the light, and cross over from the dark side to a stick and flappy things boat, you'll be too busy playing with bits of string to watch telly!
Regarding inverters, you get nothing for nothing, there's always a loss. We have two on the plastic fantastic, they are there for emergencies only, even with two 800 a/h banks!
mickrick said:
I found some info on Seafrost, which is the same system I was talking about.
http://www.seafrost.com/ed.htm
You have to run your engine anyway, so why not get something for free, without uneccesary cycling of your house bank? Plus a bit of load on the ME will do it good.[quote]
Thanks Mick; looks like a great idea for big boats but whilst ther eis plenty of space under the cockpit floor I suspect it's way too expensive/complex for a 27' inland vessel. Plus a lot more gubbins to go wrong.
I will try to find out why they're not keen to power the fridge with gas though. Maybe there's some BSS ruling, or maybe they just don't want to run a gas pipe (though it's only a few feet on from the cooker)
http://www.seafrost.com/ed.htm
You have to run your engine anyway, so why not get something for free, without uneccesary cycling of your house bank? Plus a bit of load on the ME will do it good.[quote]
Thanks Mick; looks like a great idea for big boats but whilst ther eis plenty of space under the cockpit floor I suspect it's way too expensive/complex for a 27' inland vessel. Plus a lot more gubbins to go wrong.
mickrick said:
Of course when you see the light, and cross over from the dark side to a stick and flappy things boat, you'll be too busy playing with bits of string to watch telly!
Exactly. No, on the rivers one can admire the passing countryside so don't need to pull ropes, run about getting sweaty and go in zigzags for entertainment!I will try to find out why they're not keen to power the fridge with gas though. Maybe there's some BSS ruling, or maybe they just don't want to run a gas pipe (though it's only a few feet on from the cooker)
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