RE: Biofuel timebomb

Tuesday 20th December 2011

Biofuel timebomb

Increased biofuel content for forecourt petrol could spell trouble if you run an older car



Owners of some older PH favourites will need to be on the look-out for changes at petrol pumps next year as fuels with a greater mix of bio renewables will start to become available which could harm older engines.

Under current legislation petrol can contain up to five per cent biofuel without the pump having to mention the percentage or warn the driver. This is because the mix is so low it's not thought to have a detrimental effect on the engine. Legislation is currently in place to guarantee the mix will be five per cent by April 2013 and almost all fuel already contains a small bio element.

Over the five per cent level and the pump must, by law, be labelled "Not suitable for all vehicles: consult vehicle manufacturer before use."

However, due to Europe's Renewable Energy Directive (RED) higher percentages of biofuel are on their way to the UK. RED requires members of the European Union to ensure that 10 per cent of energy used in road transport is from a renewable source by 2020. Interestingly, to reach a 10 per cent renewable energy figure, a 15 per cent mix of biofuel is required.

While this deadline is some way off, fuel companies are planning to introduce petrol with a 10 per cent bio-mix, known as E10, to the UK next year. BP is expected to be one of the first to offer the higher percentage biofuel.

To marry-up with the changes, the Department for Transport is currently considering downgrading the wording on biofuels so that only that with a greater than 10 per cent mix will have to be labelled with the words "This fuel contains more than 10 per cent biofuel."

A BP insider has likened the change to what happened when we swapped from leaded fuel to unleaded. And the reason only newer cars can run on E10 is because the higher ethanol content from has a corrosive effect on the seals and some alloy components in the fuel system. Modern engines have been built to withstand this.

While many brands, BMW among them, have declared their entire petrol engine ranges fine for E10 there are some exceptions, including 993 (and earlier) Porsche 911s. First generation FSI engines used in VW, Audi, SEAT and Skodas typically between 2000 and 2006 are not E10 compatible but all the group's current petrol engines are.

Other PH favourites like pre-2002 MX-5's and icons such as the Peugeot 205 GTI will also not be able to use the E10 fuel. Unlike the switch from leaded to unleaded petrol, there are (as yet) no fuel additives on offer to counter the issues around E10 either.

Drivers of older cars that won't take the E10 biofuel will have to seek out regular fuel, which is expected to become less common over time.

See the full list of affected cars here

Author
Discussion

elephantstone

Original Poster:

2,176 posts

157 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
More pain.

Drop the price of fuel for a year first so we can all drive v8's and then do all this eco st. At 21 im worried that ill never be able to afford a nice big v8..

Buff Mchugelarge

3,316 posts

150 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
elephantstone said:
More pain.

Drop the price of fuel for a year first so we can all drive v8's and then do all this eco st. At 21 im worried that ill never be able to afford a nice big v8..
I know how ya feel and I'm 30!,
It seems by the time we're able to buy,run and insure anything really fast, It'll all be gone.
The sole play things of the rich..

vit4

3,507 posts

170 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
bks.

Will this mean trouble for me? confused (1988 Escort & 1990 Astra, nothing special but still!)

JuniorJet

417 posts

160 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
Unfortunately 'tis the unavoidable nature of this wonderful stuff that makes our dream machines sound so lovely. It can't last forever.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

Tunku

7,703 posts

228 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
This has nothing to do with supplies, it's all Euro Eco mumbo jumbo.

rog007

5,759 posts

224 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
It's inevitable as oil supplies dwindle and social norms change. I'm sure in 100 years people will be looking at today's supercars (in a museum) and wonder how we were allowed to keep them running for so long in to the Noughties! Time for a drive methinks before it's too late...

collateral

7,238 posts

218 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
How would one know if their car is effected?

krusty

2,472 posts

249 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
The FBHVC has been following this for years although it's never really got the press coverage it should.

http://fbhvc.co.uk/bio-fuels/

Changedmyname

12,545 posts

181 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
My first thoughts is "oh! shlt".xmas

IceBoy

2,443 posts

221 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
Oh sh*t indeed.

I have a couple of 90's GTI's Mk1 & 2 ??

I was hoping to pass these on to my to my boys when they get old enough?!?

What does this mean in real terms? Will old cars just be wiped off the UK roads?

IceBoy

Gizmo!

18,150 posts

209 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
Thanks PH...

I wouldn't mind so much if it hadn't been proven that 'biofuel' is actually not very 'green' at all. frown

Now, if they started farming algae and making it from that... I might be more in favour.

paulmon

2,135 posts

241 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
Not just older cars that this applies to. A mate took a 4 or 5 year old Mondeo in the other day that woulld not start. He suspected the injectors so sent them away to be tested. He suspicions where correct they were shagged. He as told its becoming more of a problem because supermarkets in particular use substandard fuel and that one particular chains fuel was very close to being waste. Put it this was i now have more reasons not to buy my diesel from them. The reduction in oil content apparently screws the injectors up.

He replaced the injectors and the car started but it was throwing out tons of black smoke so something else had failed as well.

His advice was don't use supermarket diesel.


P

8vFTW

415 posts

153 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
Meh. Your hippy fuel does not intimidate my 21 year old Volkswagen.

gsd2000

11,515 posts

183 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
Wont E10 have a slight performance increase if the car is tuned to suit?

eybic

9,212 posts

174 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
paulmon said:
Not just older cars that this applies to. A mate took a 4 or 5 year old Mondeo in the other day that woulld not start. He suspected the injectors so sent them away to be tested. He suspicions where correct they were shagged. He as told its becoming more of a problem because supermarkets in particular use substandard fuel and that one particular chains fuel was very close to being waste. Put it this was i now have more reasons not to buy my diesel from them. The reduction in oil content apparently screws the injectors up.

He replaced the injectors and the car started but it was throwing out tons of black smoke so something else had failed as well.

His advice was don't use supermarket diesel.


P
That's a common occurance in Northern Ireland, I used to work for a manufacturer and 99% of the time people had issues caused by fuel contamination it was in NI or rural scotchland.

Hugo a Gogo

23,378 posts

233 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
they've had this bullst here in Germany for a year or so, everyone has to buy Super at 10 or 15 cents a litre more

completely blind pseudo-eco crap

Cactussed

5,292 posts

213 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
Can someone explain what the issue is and why please?

TEKNOPUG

18,943 posts

205 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
Use up valueable resources building brand new cars to be complient with the fuel, rather than continuing with existing motors; how very green! silly

TEKNOPUG

18,943 posts

205 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
Cactussed said:
Can someone explain what the issue is and why please?
The issue with engines unable accept E10?


keith2.2

1,100 posts

195 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
It says so in the article wink

Higher ethanol content of bio-fuel is corrosive to certain alloys and polymers used for tubing and seals etc in the fuel system.