Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

[Super Slo Mo]

It's easily done

[R0G]

SIMPLE TOWING RULES

These rules apply to all B and B+E category drivers no matter when the test was passed

B category
Vehicle not more than 3500 kg plated GVW

B category towing
A trailer of 750 kg max plated MAM may be towed by a B category vehicle making a possible total plated MAM of 4250 kg
If a trailer over 750 kg plated MAM is towed by a B category vehicle then the plated GVW of the vehicle added to the plated MAM of the trailer (MTPLM of a caravan) must not total more than 3500 kg

B+E category
Towing a trailer with a B category vehicle where the trailer is not over 3500 kg plated MAM

To tow a trailer over 3500 kg plated MAM the category needed is C1+E



Why can't the Gov sites make it this simple?

[Zoobeef]

Using the new online licence checker which tell you your entitlements and point etc.

Anyone notice the obvious mistake on the B cat a gory?

[R0G]

What does the missing bit above the 400/550 say ?

[R0G]

Its not even written correctly because the 3500 is missing the word MAM and the trailer weighing more than vehicle bit is no longer a legal requirement as of 19/01/2013

[Zoobeef]

R0G said:

What does the missing bit above the 400/550 say ?

It's about catagory b1, so quads up to 400 unladen

[R0G]

Zoobeef said:

It's about catagory b1, so quads up to 400 unladen

Ah - just curious

[aniesigh]

So after reading through all 12 pages, i'm now somewhat happier about life after getting rid of the urban myth about not being able to tow an empty 3500kg mam trailer behind my 2700kg tow capacity Navara! (B+E license passed 4/5 years ago)
I am looking to change vehicles at some point soon, and am considering a transit to transport my competition land rover about.
From what i gather, some of the Transits have a 'tow capacity' of 2800kgs, but GTW of 5800 and GVW of 3500 which would normally equate to a 2300kgs tow capacity. so i guess they are effectively trading off 500kgs of the vans payload for tow capacity? (i.e if i did have 2800kgs behind me, the transit could only weigh 3000kgs whereas with no trailer it can be 3500kgs)
My question is though... if i was to get pulled over, how likely is it that VOSA will not just go with the plated GTW/GVW and say that the trailer is overweight? will they really take an owners handbook info over the VIN plate? or if the manufacturer quote a higher tow capacity, is that also stamped on VIN? (never noticed one)

A mate was pulled over by VOSA under very similar circumstances and they were found to be overweight but within 10% margin so not fined. It was a lwb transit with ifor williams flatbed and land rover comp truck on the back so i would guestimate that combo to be 2800kgs roughly. i will have to give him a call and find the exact details of what the combo weighed agaisnt plated/handbook tow capacity.

Cheers

[aniesigh]

Also, found on another forum on my night of googling re. towing weights,
a post from (Rog) on transit forum:

[b] Re: max towing weight
Postby (ROG) » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:04 pm

The manufacturers max towing capacity is not set by law but exceeding it can bring a prosecution under C&U reg 100

Plated weights are law

GTW less GVW might also be the same as the manufacturers towing capacity and in most cases it is but that is not a legal thing

This would be perfectly legal
GVW 3500
GTW 5500
Towing capacity 3000
Trailer MAM 3500

As long as the vehicle GVW, GTW + towing capacity as well as the trailer MAM are not exceeded then all is legal

In the scenario above the vehicle could be 3000 and trailer 2500 or vehicle 2500 and trailer 3000 for example [/b]

So...what is the legal towing weight then? if the manufacturers towing capacity isn't set by law, and also the GTW - GVW isn't a legal thing either?

None of the vehicles i've got logbooks for have got a towable mass on them (55 plate navara, 1990 range rover classic, 98 jimny and 99 lexus ls400 , so a variable selection from various ages/vehicle types)

My Navara has GTW 5810, GVM 3210. So unless there is a Nissan quoted tow capacity (which i cannot find in the handbook?!), if the truck weighed 2310kg's, i could tow 3500kgs behind it?

[R0G]

aniesigh said:

My Navara has GTW 5810, GVM 3210. So unless there is a Nissan quoted tow capacity (which i cannot find in the handbook?!), if the truck weighed 2310kg's, i could tow 3500kgs behind it?

Technically YES

The trailer would be significantly heavier then the towing vehicle which would probably make the combination unstable and should the tail start wagging the dog then an incident is very likely due to loss of control

This could make for a prosecution under reg 100 C&U

http://vanleasingmadesimple.com/van-leasing/nissan...
Check out the MORE INFO links and scroll down for max braked towing weight

[BullyB]

BullyB said:

I found this thread helpful when deciding what to do myself so thought I would share my experiance.

I just did a B+E driving course which was two days training and the test first thing on the third day.
I actually really enjoyed myself and by the end of the two days was really comfortable driving everywhere. I think the course has not only showed me how to tow but improved my driving in general.

The test was just over an hour and I drove for about 50 minutes around town, villages, country lanes and dual carriageways.
I just chatted to the examiner all the time.

I highly recomend doing it if you have the time.

I finally did some towing..

[With these feet]

R0G said:

aniesigh said:

My Navara has GTW 5810, GVM 3210. So unless there is a Nissan quoted tow capacity (which i cannot find in the handbook?!), if the truck weighed 2310kg's, i could tow 3500kgs behind it?

Technically YES

The trailer would be significantly heavier then the towing vehicle which would probably make the combination unstable and should the tail start wagging the dog then an incident is very likely due to loss of control

This could make for a prosecution under reg 100 C&U

http://vanleasingmadesimple.com/van-leasing/nissan...
Check out the MORE INFO links and scroll down for max braked towing weight

Problem would be getting a towbar with that capacity, most stop at 3000 kgs.

[aniesigh]

R0G said:

Technically YES

The trailer would be significantly heavier then the towing vehicle which would probably make the combination unstable and should the tail start wagging the dog then an incident is very likely due to loss of control

This could make for a prosecution under reg 100 C&U

http://vanleasingmadesimple.com/van-leasing/nissan...
Check out the MORE INFO links and scroll down for max braked towing weight

That link is for a brand new navara though. mine is a 55 plate.
I struggle to believe a traffic cop / vosa officer would accept a tow capacity found on a website, and theres nothing in my handbook that gives a tow weight. so if i was pulled over what would they go with?!
I agree it would be significantly heavier than the tow vehicle, but it would be no different than towing 3500kgs behind a defender 90 which they are plated for, and i know plenty of people who regularly do it.

First towbar for my navara that ive looked at on the internet says to look in handbook for towbar capacity.

http://www.towsure.com/bundle/Nissan_Navara_D40_%2...

[aniesigh]

http://www.ntta.co.uk/faq/

"How do I calculate a Vehicle's Towing Capacity? Details of the towing capacity for your vehicle that are found in the owner’s handbook, the manufacturer’s website and also on other websites should only be taken as a guide.
The actual, exact and only towing capacity figure that should be used for your vehicle is the one that is stamped on the Vehicle Identification Number Plate, VIN Plate.
The VIN plate will display either 3 or 4 sets of weights, it is these weights that VOSA or the
other vehicle authorities use to determine whether your vehicle is towing or being driven within the law. "

So to me that means that all the Transits that i see towing mini diggers around are over weight in the eyes of VOSA, but under Fords stated braked trailer capacity, and that i CAN'T tow 3.5t behind my Navara if i've got nothing in the bed.

[jagracer]

aniesigh said:

http://www.ntta.co.uk/faq/


So to me that means that all the Transits that i see towing mini diggers around are over weight in the eyes of VOSA, but under Fords stated braked trailer capacity, and that i CAN'T tow 3.5t behind my Navara if i've got nothing in the bed.

I am probably being dense but I have no idea what you mean

[R0G]

I am a member of the Transit forum and this issue comes up often

A transit can have a GVW of 2800 with a GTW of 3500 and a towing capacity of 1200
If a trailer actually weighing 1200 was being used then the transit max actual weight is limited to 2300 - its that simple

There are many larger 4x4s out there which have been designed to safely tow 3500 when the vehicle is at kerb weight
I think the Disco is one where the max GVW is about 2750 with kerb about 2200 - I think

The chances are the 55 plate Navara is not designed to tow 3500 and is more likely to be about the same as the latest models

The safest way if unsure what is safe is to use this formula .... GTW minus GVW as the max actual towing capacity weight

[jagracer]

R0G said:

I am a member of the Transit forum and this issue comes up often

A transit can have a GVW of 2800 with a GTW of 3500 and a towing capacity of 1200
If a trailer actually weighing 1200 was being used then the transit max actual weight is limited to 2300 - its that simple

There are many larger 4x4s out there which have been designed to safely tow 3500 when the vehicle is at kerb weight
I think the Disco is one where the max GVW is about 2750 with kerb about 2200 - I think

The chances are the 55 plate Navara is not designed to tow 3500 and is more likely to be about the same as the latest models

The safest way if unsure what is safe is to use this formula .... GTW minus GVW as the max actual towing capacity weight

A problem with Transit type vehicles (and a lot of cars) can be overloading on the back axle, a few of my friends have been done like that while towing race cars yet they are still underweight on GTW. Going off the old Disco I have you are near enough spot on about the weights (mine weighs 2040 with a kerb weight of about 2200)and there has never been a problem with GVWs or GTWs as the gross train weight is actually the GVW plus the 3500kg towing weight although power wise alone I don't think I'd like to load it to over 6 tons.
My Landcruiser is the same although with a lower towing limit of 2800kg.
Another problem is the police don't always know the law, I got pulled a few weeks ago for no MOT on an exempt vehicle and it was the devils own job to convince him (traffic cop) plus his control room that I didn't need one. I showed him a link to the .gov site and he then stated it is flawed, to which I agreed but what other evidence could I offer on the side of the A20, and the discussion then went on to the .govs site's interpretation of towing limits for B licences, he was so far off the mark with what he knew it was frightening to think that some of these people are actually policing the roads.

Edited by jagracer on Sunday 23 November 09:23

[R0G]

If a cop thinks something is illegal they can then issue a ticket but must say on the ticket what the law is that has been broken

If the cop is wrong then its easy enough to show what the law is and get the ticket revoked by contacting the court

The cop then looks like a numpty especially because they had the opportunity to check with their seniors before issuing the ticket

[jagracer]

After twenty minutes of discussion I said he may as well stick me on and I'd argue with the court at a later date, at that he started to back down and then relented after his colleague came up with the same website info that I'd given him 15 minutes previously. Typical police officer wont admit when they are wrong.

[aniesigh]

jagracer said:

I am probably being dense but I have no idea what you mean

Well according to the NTTA, the max you can tow is calculated by subtracting the GVW from the GTW, which in the case of a t350 LWB Transit would give a tow capacity of 2000kgs (5500, 3500) yet Ford state a max tow capacity of 2800kgs.

While i don't disgree this is correct, i'm concerned that if i actually used this combo for towing 2800kgs that i would have a hard time convincing someone i was legal if the vin plate had 5500kgs and 3500kgs on it, as the tow capacity never seems to be stamed on the vehicle anywhere!