Evora and Caymen
Discussion
I run an Elise R, and for everyday an RS MK2 Focus. Both cars are superb in their own way...oh I also have a FZ1R bike and a modified TVR S, which is a dog compared with the modern stuff, but is still loads of fun. Truth is I want to rationalise my fleet (plus you cannot drive them all, never mind the costs...so....one plan is to sell the Focus and the Elise. The only car that appeals is the Evora, but is it a realistic reliable daily drive (approx 20K miles per year)? Obviously the Caymen looks to be a little cheaper (thinking of 1 year old models of either) and would appear to be a lot more user friendly when it somes to maintenance. All the road tests seem to rate the Caymen extremely highly, so is the Evora actually any better?? I prefer cars that do not rely on electronics, but have great dynamic ability and are "seat of the pants"...and I definately prefer controllable oversteer (ideally just like a go cart!)....and I will use it for trackdays.
I know I have to test drive them both to form my own oppinion, but it would be good to gain anyone elses experience?
I know I have to test drive them both to form my own oppinion, but it would be good to gain anyone elses experience?
I'd say for oversteer, you want a Cayman S with a diff - they're very neutral with all the electronics off. I'd happily recommend a Cayman for everyday 20,000/year. Most of the fun of an Elise with all the comfort of a BMW imho. Just bad 3/4 vision over your shoulder but then the Evora is poor for rear vis.
Don't think the standard Evora is a power on oversteer type car but it was difficult to tell on a short demo - I'd be interested to hear if anyone's tracked theirs and what they think - seemed very nice to drive /steering and ride but shorter service intervals than the 20,000 mile interval Cayman. - Might be interested in a used version at some stage. I'd be interested to hear any high mileage Evora's /maint. costs as I heard replacing a radiator for example is a credit card munching amount....
Don't think the standard Evora is a power on oversteer type car but it was difficult to tell on a short demo - I'd be interested to hear if anyone's tracked theirs and what they think - seemed very nice to drive /steering and ride but shorter service intervals than the 20,000 mile interval Cayman. - Might be interested in a used version at some stage. I'd be interested to hear any high mileage Evora's /maint. costs as I heard replacing a radiator for example is a credit card munching amount....
In terms of controllable oversteer, I'd personally say the Evora is more readily 'oversteerable' and progressive than a Cayman and is a more friendly with it when it's there.
The Evora doesn't have a locking diff, but it has enough traction to hold its speed when sliding too.
Also, I don't know how the Cayman fares on a dry track, but the standard brakes on an Evora are perfectly suitable for track use and wont give up easily!
In terms of the rest of the car, the Evora rides better and has a bit (fractionally) more legroom but the Porsche is easier to get in and out of and has a fractionally better driving position.
The Cayman also has the advantage of two boots and better rearward visibility, the Evora has the advantage of rear seats... as long as you don't want to put anyone too tall in them!
ETA - I've done 4000 miles in my car in the last 2 months and will probably end up doing 20k a year in it. In all honesty the only thing that is a bit inconvenient is the lack of luggage space really. It's a great car, and from experience of a year with a Gen 2 997 the Evora will definitely fit the bill of 'organic'.
The Evora doesn't have a locking diff, but it has enough traction to hold its speed when sliding too.
Also, I don't know how the Cayman fares on a dry track, but the standard brakes on an Evora are perfectly suitable for track use and wont give up easily!
In terms of the rest of the car, the Evora rides better and has a bit (fractionally) more legroom but the Porsche is easier to get in and out of and has a fractionally better driving position.
The Cayman also has the advantage of two boots and better rearward visibility, the Evora has the advantage of rear seats... as long as you don't want to put anyone too tall in them!
ETA - I've done 4000 miles in my car in the last 2 months and will probably end up doing 20k a year in it. In all honesty the only thing that is a bit inconvenient is the lack of luggage space really. It's a great car, and from experience of a year with a Gen 2 997 the Evora will definitely fit the bill of 'organic'.
Edited by The Wookie on Monday 23 January 17:44
donna180 said:
Interesting. What's the best wheel option for handling on the S?
Personally I prefer the 19/20 option as it raises the grip levels, the turn in and response is a fair bit sharper and they make it feel a bit more 'solid' in high speed corners. The rears also last a bit longer before they go off on track if you're really pressing on.However the tyres are more expensive and the Evora rides fractionally better on the 18/19's.
The Wookie said:
donna180 said:
Interesting. What's the best wheel option for handling on the S?
Personally I prefer the 19/20 option as it raises the grip levels, the turn in and response is a fair bit sharper and they make it feel a bit more 'solid' in high speed corners. The rears also last a bit longer before they go off on track if you're really pressing on.However the tyres are more expensive and the Evora rides fractionally better on the 18/19's.
The Wookie said:
donna180 said:
Interesting. What's the best wheel option for handling on the S?
Personally I prefer the 19/20 option as it raises the grip levels, the turn in and response is a fair bit sharper and they make it feel a bit more 'solid' in high speed corners. The rears also last a bit longer before they go off on track if you're really pressing on.However the tyres are more expensive and the Evora rides fractionally better on the 18/19's.
donna180 said:
Interested in your thoughts on the Evora's relative poor performance against the 991, R8 and XKR in this week's Autocar. AF is a respected journalist - do winter tyres make a big difference to the handling - if so someone should ask Autocar to test the car on a circuit on the right rubber...? (dodgy geometry perhaps..)
Funny enough I've never actually driven an Evora on winter rubber, but I can safely say that I've never driven an Evora that understeered heavily. They can suffer from a little understeer if the geometry or tyre pressures are significantly off, but never heavy understeer.To be honest I was pretty suprised they stuck the Evora in that test, I'd almost take it as a compliment that they thought it would be competitive against full on GT cars that cost nearly 20 grand more.
The Wookie said:
donna180 said:
Interested in your thoughts on the Evora's relative poor performance against the 991, R8 and XKR in this week's Autocar. AF is a respected journalist - do winter tyres make a big difference to the handling - if so someone should ask Autocar to test the car on a circuit on the right rubber...? (dodgy geometry perhaps..)
Funny enough I've never actually driven an Evora on winter rubber, but I can safely say that I've never driven an Evora that understeered heavily. They can suffer from a little understeer if the geometry or tyre pressures are significantly off, but never heavy understeer.To be honest I was pretty suprised they stuck the Evora in that test, I'd almost take it as a compliment that they thought it would be competitive against full on GT cars that cost nearly 20 grand more.
Does seem unfair if it was the only car on winter tyres...
donna180 said:
I hope Lotus recall the car to see if its all ok - it's a fair point on the price for sure although the difference is less than 20k in the case of the 991 - I could cope with a vanilla Carerra or S with no options save maybe mats/chrono....
Does seem unfair if it was the only car on winter tyres...
Well I've personally driven that car on track and found no problems with it, in fact my mate and colleague ran it in! There aren't really any problems that would cause an issue like that which wouldn't be picked up by the checks that take place before the car goes out to the press.Does seem unfair if it was the only car on winter tyres...
I'm inclined to put it down to the tyres or tyre pressures
The Wookie said:
donna180 said:
I hope Lotus recall the car to see if its all ok - it's a fair point on the price for sure although the difference is less than 20k in the case of the 991 - I could cope with a vanilla Carerra or S with no options save maybe mats/chrono....
Does seem unfair if it was the only car on winter tyres...
Well I've personally driven that car on track and found no problems with it, in fact my mate and colleague ran it in! There aren't really any problems that would cause an issue like that which wouldn't be picked up by the checks that take place before the car goes out to the press.Does seem unfair if it was the only car on winter tyres...
I'm inclined to put it down to the tyres or tyre pressures
I know I'll hate the 991 steering when I drive it....
Cayman is a fundamentally sound car.
Personally I find them a very 'mass produced' inside, which many find reassuring but I think the Evora is a more interesting and inviting place to spend time.
Driving wise, the Cayman is hugely preferable to a 911 for me and proof that porsche know how to make sweet handling cars.
I spent 3000 miles swapping between a recent Boxster S and my Elise last May. It was a wonderful trip across the Alps to Italy to follow the Mille Miglia and back. So I've experienced the Boxster S on every type of road imaginable. I've also spent time lapping a Boxster S around Le Mans Bugatti circuit. It's a very capable car but has a slightly aloof quality. It sounds awful but you can't quite rag it within an inch of its life. It's very obedient and benign on the limit and without doubt the superior car on the motorway (to the Elise) but on the Alpine passes the tables were turned. It felt very ordinary in comparison and unable to offer anything like the same levels of feel and feedback. But that's next to an Elise. The remarkable thing about the Evora is how it manages to retain some of the elise's virtues. The fluid ride, synaptic responses and incredible steering feel are still there despite the extra weight and power steering. Then it adds greater composure and refinement with a V6 soundtrack on top of that.
I think schnozz summed up how I feel very succintly:
'My Boxster S was about the most perfect all round car I have owned. But it rarely made me smile.'
Personally I find them a very 'mass produced' inside, which many find reassuring but I think the Evora is a more interesting and inviting place to spend time.
Driving wise, the Cayman is hugely preferable to a 911 for me and proof that porsche know how to make sweet handling cars.
I spent 3000 miles swapping between a recent Boxster S and my Elise last May. It was a wonderful trip across the Alps to Italy to follow the Mille Miglia and back. So I've experienced the Boxster S on every type of road imaginable. I've also spent time lapping a Boxster S around Le Mans Bugatti circuit. It's a very capable car but has a slightly aloof quality. It sounds awful but you can't quite rag it within an inch of its life. It's very obedient and benign on the limit and without doubt the superior car on the motorway (to the Elise) but on the Alpine passes the tables were turned. It felt very ordinary in comparison and unable to offer anything like the same levels of feel and feedback. But that's next to an Elise. The remarkable thing about the Evora is how it manages to retain some of the elise's virtues. The fluid ride, synaptic responses and incredible steering feel are still there despite the extra weight and power steering. Then it adds greater composure and refinement with a V6 soundtrack on top of that.
I think schnozz summed up how I feel very succintly:
'My Boxster S was about the most perfect all round car I have owned. But it rarely made me smile.'
The Pits said:
I think schnozz summed up how I feel very succintly:
'My Boxster S was about the most perfect all round car I have owned. But it rarely made me smile.'
+1 on the sentiment. 'My Boxster S was about the most perfect all round car I have owned. But it rarely made me smile.'
I recently looked at a Cayman and an Evora S - the Cayman was obviously very well built etc. but it didn't inspire me.
The Evora S (MY12) however... I want... I want badly. It made me feel like a bit of a playboy and I'm fairly obsessed about getting one now...
The Wookie said:
To be honest I was pretty suprised they stuck the Evora in that test, I'd almost take it as a compliment that they thought it would be competitive against full on GT cars that cost nearly 20 grand more.
It rather continues the confusion about where the Evora sits. The critics get to compare it against the Cayman and say "it costs more", then compare it against the 911 and say "it doesn't do as much". Porsche have owned the space for so long that having one car instead of two in that niche leaves the Evora stuck between two stools.Not quite as good as the 911, but 20 grand less? Hmm...
Actually with extras the Cayman R is more expensive. You can spec them up to and over £80k. I'd love to know the average selling price of a Cayman R or S, but I'd wager it's more than the average Evora price. Honestly £65k on a Cayman R is very easily done.
That's the big myth and sucker punch that everyone falls for about porsche pricing. It's also how they manage to make so much profit on every car. They get every punter to spend loads more than he or she ever intended. I also suspect the Cayman is worth having in the showroom just so the salesman can say, 'of course if sir can't afford a proper porsche, there's always this.' Punter quickly signs up to a life of debt and yet another 911 rolls off the line.
A fully loaded Evora is £20k less than an embarrasingly basic spec 991. Most people will be spending around the £100k mark for their 991s. Porsche are also masters of making their poverty spec cars just undesirable enough with small unattractive wheels that don't feature in any road test or brochure, ugly seats and lots of interior plastic etc. Very clever. But a bit unsporting.
That's the big myth and sucker punch that everyone falls for about porsche pricing. It's also how they manage to make so much profit on every car. They get every punter to spend loads more than he or she ever intended. I also suspect the Cayman is worth having in the showroom just so the salesman can say, 'of course if sir can't afford a proper porsche, there's always this.' Punter quickly signs up to a life of debt and yet another 911 rolls off the line.
A fully loaded Evora is £20k less than an embarrasingly basic spec 991. Most people will be spending around the £100k mark for their 991s. Porsche are also masters of making their poverty spec cars just undesirable enough with small unattractive wheels that don't feature in any road test or brochure, ugly seats and lots of interior plastic etc. Very clever. But a bit unsporting.
£61k plus £5500 ceramic brakes = £66,500
I'd say that supports my view that you can easily get to £65k speccing a Cayman R.
You get a top spec Evora S for that.
Basic Cayman R for £52k comes with no aircon, no stereo, no leather, no sat nav. And a choice of 3 colours.
I see no reason to reconsider my view that the Evora S is Cayman money, not 911 money.
I'd say that supports my view that you can easily get to £65k speccing a Cayman R.
You get a top spec Evora S for that.
Basic Cayman R for £52k comes with no aircon, no stereo, no leather, no sat nav. And a choice of 3 colours.
I see no reason to reconsider my view that the Evora S is Cayman money, not 911 money.
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