Advice for a friend of mine
Discussion
I have a friend, let’s called him Bob for now. Bob has a choice to make that he’s struggling with and has asked me to ask the wise and good of PH for advice.
He’s currently on a temporary contract earning around £35k in a role that he loves. He works for a charity for disabled adults and is in one of those jobs where he gets to see that he is actually making a difference to real people every day, rather than lining the pockets of high flyers who don’t appear to do much work.
His temp contract is running out very soon and he’s been offered a permanent job there. The issue is that the permanent role is on a significantly lower salary of around £27k. It’s a job in which there is very little chance to move upwards due to the nature of what he does, so he will be in this job for a while (years). The role is also about 40 miles commute each way, but he’s been doing that kind of mileage for the past 4 years and doesn’t really mind it too much.
But hang on just a second, there is also the promise of another job elsewhere! An unexpected little curve ball for good ol’ Bobby. He has the option of going to work for a large corporate company as an account manager and will have a basic of £35k, plus a small OTE on top of that. This job will be about 75% based at home and 25% on the road with the probability of spending a few days a month away, overnight. The basics of the job is to sell stuff to existing accounts and try and get new accounts to sign up. This is something very similar to what Bob did a few years ago, but he never really enjoyed it and got no real satisfaction out of doing it.
Now, Bob doesn’t have any kids yet, but is married with a mortgage and is trying for kids. What do you guys think I should advise Bob?
Should I advise him to go with a job that he enjoys and that gives him a satisfying sense of accomplishment, but that he’ll have to come to terms with the fact that he’s going to be earning less for, probably, the rest of his career. Or, should he look to the Account Manager job and earn enough so that his wife doesn’t have to work when she pops out a sprog but be (potentially) desperately unhappy, unchallenged and unsatisfied with what he’s doing.
Bob is in a quandary. Please help Bob….
He’s currently on a temporary contract earning around £35k in a role that he loves. He works for a charity for disabled adults and is in one of those jobs where he gets to see that he is actually making a difference to real people every day, rather than lining the pockets of high flyers who don’t appear to do much work.
His temp contract is running out very soon and he’s been offered a permanent job there. The issue is that the permanent role is on a significantly lower salary of around £27k. It’s a job in which there is very little chance to move upwards due to the nature of what he does, so he will be in this job for a while (years). The role is also about 40 miles commute each way, but he’s been doing that kind of mileage for the past 4 years and doesn’t really mind it too much.
But hang on just a second, there is also the promise of another job elsewhere! An unexpected little curve ball for good ol’ Bobby. He has the option of going to work for a large corporate company as an account manager and will have a basic of £35k, plus a small OTE on top of that. This job will be about 75% based at home and 25% on the road with the probability of spending a few days a month away, overnight. The basics of the job is to sell stuff to existing accounts and try and get new accounts to sign up. This is something very similar to what Bob did a few years ago, but he never really enjoyed it and got no real satisfaction out of doing it.
Now, Bob doesn’t have any kids yet, but is married with a mortgage and is trying for kids. What do you guys think I should advise Bob?
Should I advise him to go with a job that he enjoys and that gives him a satisfying sense of accomplishment, but that he’ll have to come to terms with the fact that he’s going to be earning less for, probably, the rest of his career. Or, should he look to the Account Manager job and earn enough so that his wife doesn’t have to work when she pops out a sprog but be (potentially) desperately unhappy, unchallenged and unsatisfied with what he’s doing.
Bob is in a quandary. Please help Bob….
V8mate said:
Married bloke with an opportunity for nights away? All his Christmases etc...?
And, of course, he'll be doing it reluctantly and 'for the family', to ensure he retains his salary level.
Hanging on in quiet desperation in the English way.... And, of course, he'll be doing it reluctantly and 'for the family', to ensure he retains his salary level.
If Bob chooses life and a massive plasma screen, then a sofa on credit and then he'll need a bigger job, and kids school shoes aren't cheap, his missus will be on at him for foriegn holidays and spa days and s
t that she does really need but does want because the other mummies wear Cath Kidstone aprons, so Bob will end up working 17 houts a day and using the road trips to peddle drugs out of the boot of his tedious but economical eurobox. Or he could ditch her now to save money and take the charity job and cook mung beans everynight and fart in peace?
tough call
dal2litrefrogeye said:
bummer i know , but job satisfaction doesnt pay the bills 
Well yes and no. If it's possible to cut your cloth, and live on a lower salary, and pay the essential bills and are happy, then it's 1000 times better than being miserable. I know this because I once thought about killing myself because I hated my job so much, luckily it was a fleeting thought, and even luckier, there were redundancies announced, and 3 months later when I was one of the 45, it was the most happy I'd been for at least 10 years.
I had no way of paying the bills, but I knew that I'd never ever do a job I hated again.
My advise to the OP is try and see if you can do both jobs part time.
elanfan said:
How come the Charidee can offer £8K per year more to a contractor rather than permanent staff? It wouls seem to me there is some negotiation to be done here.
Money all well and good but happiness and job satisfaction can't really be bought.
Present them with BOB's problem and ask them to solve it, would be my negotiation ploy.Money all well and good but happiness and job satisfaction can't really be bought.
Bob has been offered a better paid job, but would like to work for charaday, except he needs to take home £X otherwise he can't actually live, because he isn't a charity.
My wife works for a Charity for NOTHING, but that's because she can afford to give them one day a week, whilst I slave away.
Living on a lower salary wouldn't be a problem for Bob, for now at least. It's when (if) baby Bob turns up that purse strings would be tightened if he gets his way. The main thing that Bob has always wanted is for Mrs Bob to not have to go back to work when kids turn up and, with the best will in the world, 2 people and 1 little person living on a late £20k salary would prove very difficult.
BUT, I suppose the main issue Bob is fighting with is, would tightening the purse strings for a few years be worth the quality of life that the charity job offers? Or would being potentially stressed, irritable and, although the job says only 25% on the road, away from home a lot be worth it for the extra bunce (this is from previous experience of a similar role).
There may be a little room for negotiation with the salary at the current place, but the reason for the drop is that the temp contract was for Bob to go into the place and make things work, make it pass audit and just generally clean the place up really. Now that's done, it's a case of hand holding and maintaining it, so less responsibility and less people to manage means less money (makes sense in a logical kind of way, but feels like a bit of a cop out IMO).
I guess it's a simple case of one doesn't know if one doesn't try. Easy enough to write it down on here, but it's doing my head in trying to put it into practice (for Bob, obviously)!
BUT, I suppose the main issue Bob is fighting with is, would tightening the purse strings for a few years be worth the quality of life that the charity job offers? Or would being potentially stressed, irritable and, although the job says only 25% on the road, away from home a lot be worth it for the extra bunce (this is from previous experience of a similar role).
There may be a little room for negotiation with the salary at the current place, but the reason for the drop is that the temp contract was for Bob to go into the place and make things work, make it pass audit and just generally clean the place up really. Now that's done, it's a case of hand holding and maintaining it, so less responsibility and less people to manage means less money (makes sense in a logical kind of way, but feels like a bit of a cop out IMO).
I guess it's a simple case of one doesn't know if one doesn't try. Easy enough to write it down on here, but it's doing my head in trying to put it into practice (for Bob, obviously)!
I would tell Bob to explain the situation regarding the salary to the charity; that he would like to work there but as his missus is brewing and there is a £35k option on the table, he just can’t work for late £20s.
He has to be realistic, and at this time of life being comfortable and building a career is very important. There will always be the option to take a pay cut and move into that sector later when he’s in a more comfortable position, indeed experience outside the sector may be very useful for a future charity role.
It might be ‘nice’ to do a job you realty like, but struggling with a new kid and associated costs when you know they needn’t be so difficult isn’t ‘nice’ either.
He has to be realistic, and at this time of life being comfortable and building a career is very important. There will always be the option to take a pay cut and move into that sector later when he’s in a more comfortable position, indeed experience outside the sector may be very useful for a future charity role.
It might be ‘nice’ to do a job you realty like, but struggling with a new kid and associated costs when you know they needn’t be so difficult isn’t ‘nice’ either.
When I think of charities, I think of people working for nothing, because they believe in what the charity are doing. I wouldn't be all that keen contributing to a charity that was paying £35K a year to consultants. But I am quite old, so inclined to be old fashioned. This charity sounds pretty much like a business. I guess all the big charities are now, just the way of things.
What actually is the relevance oof the enjoyable jopb being a charity anyway, surely the choice is between working in a job Bob enjoys for c.£28K, or working in a job he doesn't for £35K?
What actually is the relevance oof the enjoyable jopb being a charity anyway, surely the choice is between working in a job Bob enjoys for c.£28K, or working in a job he doesn't for £35K?
Life's too short to not enjoy your work but having money troubles at home is also very stressful and not good either.
Personally, If Bob can afford to keep working for the Charity (although put your cards on the table as above and see what they offer first!).
If Bob's OH gets up the duff and money troubles are looming then look for another job then
Personally, If Bob can afford to keep working for the Charity (although put your cards on the table as above and see what they offer first!).
If Bob's OH gets up the duff and money troubles are looming then look for another job then
Here is what I would do. Probably anyway.
Charity begins at home. I'm no selfish Thatcherite, but it seems to me that choosing the lower salaried job would considerably restrict his career, and the potential quality of life (and standard of living) of his prospective family. For all that it is a charity, it is a business too. If difficult times come and he has to go, then he goes. There is no "get out of jail free" card for being a martyr. The charity may last 10-20 years. His career could last another 40, and the benefits from his increased income may be experienced by his family for far longer than that. In reality, they will find someone else to do what he can.
Man cannot live on bread alone, as they say, and he may well feel bad for leaving the charity behind. There is nothing to stop him doing volunteer work for them, whether it be in a professional capacity or lower down the food chain.
Charity begins at home. I'm no selfish Thatcherite, but it seems to me that choosing the lower salaried job would considerably restrict his career, and the potential quality of life (and standard of living) of his prospective family. For all that it is a charity, it is a business too. If difficult times come and he has to go, then he goes. There is no "get out of jail free" card for being a martyr. The charity may last 10-20 years. His career could last another 40, and the benefits from his increased income may be experienced by his family for far longer than that. In reality, they will find someone else to do what he can.
Man cannot live on bread alone, as they say, and he may well feel bad for leaving the charity behind. There is nothing to stop him doing volunteer work for them, whether it be in a professional capacity or lower down the food chain.
Jonboy_t said:
Living on a lower salary wouldn't be a problem for Bob, for now at least. It's when (if) baby Bob turns up that purse strings would be tightened if he gets his way. The main thing that Bob has always wanted is for Mrs Bob to not have to go back to work when kids turn up
Does Mrs. Bob get a say? Maybe she will want to go back to work. Her working 14 hours per week @ £7 per hour is equal to the difference in the 2 salaries (she wouldn't be taxed, he would).Mrs Bob working 14 hours per week, Mr Bob in a £27k stress free job (with flexitime?) sounds like a much better life than Mr Bob earning £35k but being away from home often, Mrs Bob feeling lonely and isolated, Mr Bob feeling stressed and taking it out on Mrs Bob, Mrs Bob starts sleeping with the unstressed guy who took Mr Bobs charity job and had the time to give her attention. Mrs Bob divorces Mr Bob, screws him financially and never lets him see Little Bob. Do you see what I'm getting at here?
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