|
turbobloke
55,494 posts
129 months
|
Mandelson is apparently calling for an in-out referendum today on the basis that, while he's a europhile, greater unification and all that goes with it should not take place without an in-out referendum.
|
|
|
turbobloke
55,494 posts
129 months
|
To which I should add, in my view this is an attempt by Mandy to destabilise the Coalition. He knows Boris's views proved popular and that CMD has ruled out a referendum. So Mandy stirs the pot by suggesting we have one, knowing the massive popular support for such a move will cause a headache for the Coalition as eurosceptic Tory MPs will pick up the baton. Before doing so they should consider where it's been.
|
|
|
Andy Zarse
8,055 posts
116 months
|
Ack  it doesn't bear thinking about...
|
|
|
Globs
11,749 posts
100 months
|
turbobloke said: To which I should add, in my view this is an attempt by Mandy to destabilise the Coalition. He knows Boris's views proved popular and that CMD has ruled out a referendum. So Mandy stirs the pot by suggesting we have one, knowing the massive popular support for such a move will cause a headache for the Coalition as eurosceptic Tory MPs will pick up the baton. Before doing so they should consider where it's been. It's either this or Many has been snubbed by the EU somehow. Or both.
|
|
|
DJRC
19,840 posts
105 months
|
Apache said: 1point7bar said: Blib said: So, if Hollande gets in on Sunday, he'll tear up any agreement with Merkel?
Then what does she do? Shirley, the whole edifice will begin to crumble? Starting on Monday morning. Hollande is a socialist. His policies are overtax & overspend. The bond market would probably not gaze favourably upon his nationalising tendencies and for this 'crime' of private capital freedom he will blame the City. The usual suspects of Euro break up and currency devaluation would be a solution to the ensuing self-inflicted French credit constrictions. I was in Lyon yesterday and overheard talk of a Euro meltdown because it was felt that Hollande would get in But we knew that 6 months ago.
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
Apache
38,248 posts
153 months
|
DJRC said: Apache said: 1point7bar said: Blib said: So, if Hollande gets in on Sunday, he'll tear up any agreement with Merkel?
Then what does she do? Shirley, the whole edifice will begin to crumble? Starting on Monday morning. Hollande is a socialist. His policies are overtax & overspend. The bond market would probably not gaze favourably upon his nationalising tendencies and for this 'crime' of private capital freedom he will blame the City. The usual suspects of Euro break up and currency devaluation would be a solution to the ensuing self-inflicted French credit constrictions. I was in Lyon yesterday and overheard talk of a Euro meltdown because it was felt that Hollande would get in But we knew that 6 months ago. sorry, I'm not as economically 'on the ball' as some of you lot
|
|
|
Dark Helmet
186 posts
44 months
|
That slimy worm M  lson should NEVER have been allowed back into office. What the were Bliar/Brownpants thinking? Jobs for the boys I guess and it's this sort of political carry-on and contempt for popular opinion which does nothing to help prevent destabilizing governments.
|
|
|
Globs
11,749 posts
100 months
|
Dark Helmet said: That slimy worm M lson should NEVER have been allowed back into office. What the were Bliar/Brownpants thinking? Jobs for the boys I guess and it's this sort of political carry-on and contempt for popular opinion which does nothing to help prevent destabilizing governments. Popular opinion? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/local-ele...The majority of voters are still too stupid to notice what's going on. The things they care about are Corrie, Towie and Eastenders.
|
|
|
turbobloke
55,494 posts
129 months
|
Edgy protest poster causes sense of humour failure in eurodrones, not surprising really.  linkSlogan: "Eurocrate, sers-toi de ta cravate" (make good use of your tie) "Officials fear the campaign is part of a growing backlash against the EU across Europe in response to the eurozone crisis and austerity cuts."NSS...
|
|
|
odyssey2200
17,500 posts
78 months
|
So Mandy sees that UKIP are beginning to gain some support, feels the heat a little bit and sees a huge opportunity to go on a bit of a power grab.
Nothing more that self preservation and opportunism IMHO.
|
|
|
Gary11
3,437 posts
70 months
|
Globs said: Do you know globs your right my wife looked at me in disbelief last night as I tried (badly) to explain via this thread what may happen,when the topic comes up in a group you get 2-3 people taking part as the rest skulk of or yawn and start talking footie towie or eastenders ....thing is where does it get us?
|
|
|
Huntsman
3,601 posts
119 months
|
I understand, primarily from this thread, that in the UK when Labour were in power, for every £4 spent, £1 was borrowed.
Can you tell me, in Spain, now, what is that ratio? How much are they spending and how much are they borrowing?
With 25% of the working population in Spain unemployed how big is their welfare bill and how are they finding the money to pay it?
|
|
|
powerstroke
1,720 posts
29 months
|
Gary11 said: Globs said: Do you know globs your right my wife looked at me in disbelief last night as I tried (badly) to explain via this thread what may happen,when the topic comes up in a group you get 2-3 people taking part as the rest skulk of or yawn and start talking footie towie or eastenders ....thing is where does it get us? Nowhere unless they are personaly hit in the pocket  then they will want to know why did'nt anyone warn them 
|
|
|
1point7bar
1,091 posts
17 months
|
Globs said: Popular opinion?
The majority of voters are still too stupid to notice what's going on.
The things they care about are Corrie, Towie and Eastenders. I am not sold on the assignment of stupidity as the overriding cause. Human action is a very difficult subject to be certain about. The impericist approach that uses historical statistical induction is inherently out of date and possibly fatally conceited. A system (the economy) with so many acting variables (us), has recently shown mathematical modelling to be unreliable, and this method more of a case to answer for the current jeopardy than stupidity. Popular thoughts are clearly a product of mass media education, or manipulation if you like, and delusions easily propogated by this process.
|
|
|
LongQ
8,840 posts
102 months
|
1point7bar said: Globs said: Popular opinion?
The majority of voters are still too stupid to notice what's going on.
The things they care about are Corrie, Towie and Eastenders. I am not sold on the assignment of stupidity as the overriding cause. Human action is a very difficult subject to be certain about. The impericist approach that uses historical statistical induction is inherently out of date and possibly fatally conceited. A system (the economy) with so many acting variables (us), has recently shown mathematical modelling to be unreliable, and this method more of a case to answer for the current jeopardy than stupidity. Popular thoughts are clearly a product of mass media education, or manipulation if you like, and delusions easily propogated by this process. Alternatively you might conclude that many voters - up to 90% on some matters based on the recent local elections - are well aware about what is going on, have spotted the lack of any means by which they can effectively influence anything through the democratic process in a foreseeable future and have disengaged from whatever the process was meant to be. I await some new regulation that makes it an offence not to vote (if eligible) during an election process. I believe Australia already has such a law along with a few other places around the world. Once all the political parties have broadly the same manifesto and policies and bubble-wrapped leaderships no matter who you vote for the policy can be shown to be acceptable to the voters. All will be well with the world. A couple of gulags will fix the problem of any dissident voices. The influence or otherwise of TV in all of this might be an interesting subject to discuss. But as I never watch any (although occasionally cannot help seeing and hearing a few seconds of random broadcasts) I would not be qualified to offer a sound opinion.
|
|
|
Gary11
3,437 posts
70 months
|
I see a real tide change here a problem not seen or thought possible before the crash,remove intrenched family party loyalty for a moment,look down the 5yr austerity gun barrel,or vote for the left cynicaly (particularly in the UK) vote grabbing by promising no more cuts and an end to austerity actually turning the electorate against the people trying to "fix" the problems, caused hypocriticaly by the people now offering a (the)way out.I just watched an interview where a family in Greece,quite well to do teacher wife accountant husband,uni son all have not worked for 3YEARS so are voting for the easier non austerity left wing parties as they cannot continue their lives and have voted this way not out of political dissuation but DESPARATION thats the new problem facing this mess IMO.
If it is a left wing tide sweeping accross Europe then the trouble will start,FWIW the tories have gone in too hard they need to wind their necks in a bit before it al goes pear shaped!!
|
|
|
Gary11
3,437 posts
70 months
|
Huntsman said: I understand, primarily from this thread, that in the UK when Labour were in power, for every £4 spent, £1 was borrowed.
Can you tell me, in Spain, now, what is that ratio? How much are they spending and how much are they borrowing?
With 25% of the working population in Spain unemployed how big is their welfare bill and how are they finding the money to pay it? 50% of under 25s are unemployed too a scary figure.
|
|
|
davepoth
19,927 posts
68 months
|
Gary11 said: I see a real tide change here a problem not seen or thought possible before the crash,remove intrenched family party loyalty for a moment,look down the 5yr austerity gun barrel,or vote for the left cynicaly (particularly in the UK) vote grabbing by promising no more cuts and an end to austerity actually turning the electorate against the people trying to "fix" the problems, caused hypocriticaly by the people now offering a (the)way out.I just watched an interview where a family in Greece,quite well to do teacher wife accountant husband,uni son all have not worked for 3YEARS so are voting for the easier non austerity left wing parties as they cannot continue their lives and have voted this way not out of political dissuation but DESPARATION thats the new problem facing this mess IMO.
If it is a left wing tide sweeping accross Europe then the trouble will start,FWIW the tories have gone in too hard they need to wind their necks in a bit before it al goes pear shaped!! Austerity of the level that's going on in Greece isn't a left wing-right wing thing. All mainstream parties in Greece are advocating austerity because the alternative (being dumped out of the Euro) means they get chucked off the gravy train of massive funds coming from Brussels. For Greece the fiscally responsible thing to do was default on the debts early. There's no left wing tide in Europe. It's a tide of extremism of both sides of the political spectrum.
|
|
|
Gary11
3,437 posts
70 months
|
davepoth said: Austerity of the level that's going on in Greece isn't a left wing-right wing thing. All mainstream parties in Greece are advocating austerity because the alternative (being dumped out of the Euro) means they get chucked off the gravy train of massive funds coming from Brussels.
For Greece the fiscally responsible thing to do was default on the debts early.
There's no left wing tide in Europe. It's a tide of extremism of both sides of the political spectrum. Well we will have to see hypotheticaly its easy to say not but lets see how the elections go France and Greece will go to the left,I think the UK would today to be honest the electorate wont vote for pain,I agree about default for Greece wouldve saved billions.
|
|
|
Traveller
1,265 posts
86 months
|
Gary11 said: 50% of under 25s are unemployed too a scary figure. That kind of unemployment figure, coupled to diminishing state handouts, sounds like a recipe for serious social unrest.
|
|
