|
Globs
11,746 posts
100 months
|
Steffan said: The EU simply want to pass this on to someone else. But who is there? This is a trick question yes? The plan is the usual one, like in Ireland the plan is to rape the taxpayer. Lets hope for Spain to follow the lessons of Iceland and let the debts be defaulted away. From the Telegraph comments: damicol said: I strongly suggest that these clowns thieves and corrupt devious lying criminals employ the services of one Mr Bernie Madeoff.
He had a redeeming feature, He knew what he was doing.
At least his Ponzi scheme lasted far longer that the shot to pieces holed below the waterline, bankrupt and thoroughly discredited abysmal paper shuffling pretense that the current utterly useless stack of corrupt worthless tissue of risible and actually laughable pottage of insignificant documents and plans and bonds that these feeble minded utterly incompetent nincompoops, bereft as they are of even the slightest inkling of what financial matters mean in the real world.
At least Mr Madeoff's schemes, when they collapsed, did so without leaving hundreds of millions of ordinary people bankrupt and with wrecked lives and the imposition of usurious taxes and theft of citizens assets and the wholesale destruction of the entire SME base of the Southern United States.
These dregs from the bottom of a cesspit have not only targeted the elderly, wrecking and stealing pensions, homeowners, small businesses the sick the university graduates and hundreds of millions losing freedoms and rights and their future. and smashed beyond any possible hopes of recovery over 30 % of the SME base of Southern Europe
And the receivers actually managed to rescue something from Mr Madeoff's excesses.
This Ponzi scheme, currently rocketing north of 50 trillion across just the EU alone and the inept criminal shysters and their filthy toadying supporters, when this collapses, it will not, as with Mr Madeoff, see an end to the misery, but the start of something that will wreck ever more millions of lives and leave nothing but smoking ruins and utter devastation over a whole continent.
And that is if it collapses right now.
God knows whats in store if somehow these lying scumbags can suppress and stamp on the lives of the 500 million Europeans, grinding them ever deeper into despair and poverty by plundering the scraps that are left to keep this figment of their twisted imagination as far as anything of any value is concerned going.
And that leaves me left to consider just how upright, respectable and honorable and just what a paragon of virtue and sincerity and honesty he was in comparison to the parasitic turds that infest Brussels. He seems to have the correct measure of them.
|
|
|
odyssey2200
17,456 posts
78 months
|
AndrewW-G said: If that's the cost of saving them (maybe only temporarily) whats the cost of letting them go? We have already seen that bailouts only result in a second bailout and so on.
|
|
|
Daz68
1,323 posts
79 months
|
A Billion here and a Billion there seems all so trivial and normal to the fools that are in charge of this mess. The fall out that will inevitably follow has massive and unforeseen events for alot of good honest people. I fear the worst.
|
|
|
Globs
11,746 posts
100 months
|
Daz68 said: A Billion here and a Billion there seems all so trivial and normal to the fools that are in charge of this mess. The fall out that will inevitably follow has massive and unforeseen events for alot of good honest people. I fear the worst. If there are about 16m working people in Spain that's €62.50 for each worker per billion. So a state backed bailout of €81m will cost them €5062 (plus compounding interest).
|
|
|
WhoseGeneration
4,090 posts
76 months
|
|
|
Steffan
6,187 posts
97 months
|
Globs said: Daz68 said: A Billion here and a Billion there seems all so trivial and normal to the fools that are in charge of this mess. The fall out that will inevitably follow has massive and unforeseen events for alot of good honest people. I fear the worst. If there are about 16m working people in Spain that's €62.50 for each worker per billion. So a state backed bailout of €81m will cost them €5062 (plus compounding interest). I appreciate the detailed workings. As you will understand, Globs, sadly the real costs to Spain will be much higher then this. The entire underlying premise of the bail out itself is a complete nonsense. The HBAT's cannot afford to actually live in the manner to which excessive borrowing enabled them to live. That is the real problem. The Spanish economy CANNOT generate sufficient income to repay either this or any other bail out or interest thereon. The EU are pretending the debt will be repaid in exactly the same way that the Spanish Banks have been pretending that their hopelessly overexposed mortgage lending would be repaid. For four years. Dishonestly. Neither will be. The debt is dead and the bail out will be dead too. Nothing is coming back from this nonsense to the EU. The outright dishonesty and misfeance going on in the EU attempt to put off reality is simply disgraceful. There is going to be a huge unremitting collapse across Europe as the reality of the nonsense that is being perpetrated in the name of Economics is made apparent by events. Just a matter of time. There is no recovery for the HBAT's in this and the EU will pick up the Trillions of lost debt. Absolute and utter Madness. Sheer unadulterated stupidity. Blind foolishness. These are kindly descriptions of the EU hegemoney involved in this total sham.
|
|
|
odyssey2200
17,456 posts
78 months
|
Globs said: Daz68 said: A Billion here and a Billion there seems all so trivial and normal to the fools that are in charge of this mess. The fall out that will inevitably follow has massive and unforeseen events for alot of good honest people. I fear the worst. If there are about 16m working people in Spain that's €62.50 for each worker per billion. So a state backed bailout of €81m will cost them €5062 (plus compounding interest). I think the figure was 81 BILLION not 81 million.
|
|
|
Globs
11,746 posts
100 months
|
odyssey2200 said: I think the figure was 81 BILLION not 81 million. Sorry yes I used 81e9 in the calculation. As Steffan says, this sum is too big and can't be paid back. I always reduce it to cost-per-taxpayer to see how affordable it is to the average Joe, or Pedrosa. I.e. the Olympics here cost £600 each. Puts it all into perspective for me 
|
|
|
odyssey2200
17,456 posts
78 months
|
Globs said: I.e. the Olympics here cost £600 each. Puts it all into perspective for me I want my money back 
|
|
|
LongQ
8,837 posts
102 months
|
odyssey2200 said: Globs said: I.e. the Olympics here cost £600 each. Puts it all into perspective for me I want my money back With interest. Proper interest.
|
|
|
Welshbeef
13,047 posts
67 months
|
odyssey2200 said: Globs said: I.e. the Olympics here cost £600 each. Puts it all into perspective for me I want my money back That's the actual spent cash but what about the tax receipts from all the Forign visitors spending on fast moving consumer goods and stuff plus the boost it is giving to the economy. Worst case it's £600 each that's a good value investment IMHO. But splitting it on a per individual perspective what about all the corporation tax ?? You could divide it by only the companies who are registered instead of individuals.
|
|
|
steveatesh
965 posts
33 months
|
|
|
LongQ
8,837 posts
102 months
|
Welshbeef said: odyssey2200 said: Globs said: I.e. the Olympics here cost £600 each. Puts it all into perspective for me I want my money back That's the actual spent cash but what about the tax receipts from all the Forign visitors spending on fast moving consumer goods and stuff plus the boost it is giving to the economy. Worst case it's £600 each that's a good value investment IMHO. But splitting it on a per individual perspective what about all the corporation tax ?? You could divide it by only the companies who are registered instead of individuals. I would guess that we will have to wait to see the official accounts and then make a judgement based on the numbers. That they have unsold tickets going round in a sales loop may or may not be indicative of the end result. We won;t know for a couple of months at least. However an even tlike this in the middle of a financial crisis may not do as well as would have been hoped whe it was first set up. Moreover as far as I know few if any Olympics in modern times have have broken even let alone made a net profit even taking into account re-use of any construction assets after the event. Maybe London should simply have rented Athens and run the event there. Might have been cheaper and helped solve part of the Greek financial problem (albeit a small part.)
|
|
|
Globs
11,746 posts
100 months
|
Welshbeef said: that's a good value investment IMHO.  Very good.
|
|
|
Welshbeef
13,047 posts
67 months
|
Id be highly doubtfully that the HMRC have profit centres set up for the Olympics and that they are actively assessing current trends and awaiting to see the Olympics impact.
Shame but true it all goes into one pot of cash and they can only punt at a possible value rather than be effective in their understanding and anysis of the performance of the investment
|
|
|
Steffan
6,187 posts
97 months
|
Globs said: Steffan said: The EU simply want to pass this on to someone else. But who is there? This is a trick question yes? My concern in all of this is the absolute impossibility of this debt every being repaid. The EU can spin the totals till the cows come home and pretend the debt is good and will be recovered. But in reality the debt of Spain, Greece, Portugal and Italy is never going to be repaid. Like Iceland, as you suggest, they NEED to default. The EU are buying time at huge costs with desperate non remedies that spin the collapse on, but only by adding more and more irrecoverable debt. Clearly the seriously exposed currently solvent(ish) countries on the EU like France, Belgium and many others, are toast when this debt is written off, which it must be. The rescue plan of the EU, is therefore fundamentally flawed, to the point where there is no real prospect, of any recovery, within the HBAT's whatsoever. Putting off difficult decisions, does not constitute an effective recovery plan. There will be an almighty collapse within the EU, in the near future, made all the worse by the months and months of wasted time and frittered Euro's that will magnify the collapse dramatically. My fear now is that the real consequence of this refusal to deal with reality, and admit their mistakes, by the EU, will ramp this up to the point that when it goes, France goes with it. In which case, the EU on its current form is dead in the water. This is totally avoidable, if only the EU would face reality. But they will not. Only one end. Dreadful, lasting, miserable, economic disaster across Europe. Hardly a grand plan by masterminds it it? One of the reasons I always favoured cock up theory over conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theory requires a level of intelligence and planning, very rarely actually present in any political gathering. Modern politicians can fudge issues and spin policy brilliantly. They can fiddle expenses and scrabble rich pickings very effectively. What the cannot do is plan any workable economic approach. Or face the consequences of their own ineptitude. Default, here we come.
|
|
|
Randy Winkman
1,990 posts
58 months
|
steveatesh said: Those currently in charge are just trying to make their own personal fortunes before it all falls apart.
|
|
|
RYH64E
3,089 posts
113 months
|
steveatesh said: Am I the only one having difficulty reconciling reports of huge profits in the banking sector when it comes to bonus time, with reports elsewhere of undisclosed losses, bail outs, insolvency and 'zombie banks'?
|
|
|
Gary11
3,433 posts
70 months
|
RYH64E said: Am I the only one having difficulty reconciling reports of huge profits in the banking sector when it comes to bonus time, with reports elsewhere of undisclosed losses, bail outs, insolvency and 'zombie banks'? My sentiments entirely,why should a bank get the everfull glass filled at our expense.....sentencing us and Europe to years of austerity (peoples lives remember) to repay it,let them burn there are plenty of large multinationals wanting into the banking sector,IMO they should work for the minimum wage until its repaid they lost the bloody money not us!The government has a part too trying to shaft all of us with stealth tax after stealth tax,20% VAT,mean camera cars expensive fuel and utilities all fanning the flames of PERSONAL insolvency and taking peoples disposeable (spend) away,look at the price of fuel its just a joke we are on our knees any new ideas PLEASE??
|
|
|
DJRC
19,823 posts
105 months
|
Whats the old joke Steffan...in heaven the wine is done by the French, the food by the Italians and the economics by the Germans. In hell the whine is done by the French, the food by the Germans and the economics by the Italians. Oh well, Spain has gone kaput. We all knew it was going to. France has just lost a s  tload of money. Angie is probably roaming the streets of Berlin looking for someone to shoot the Italians have all gone back to their Siesta. What are the Italians borrowing at at the moment? 5.5%...oh well, thats fine then 
|
|
