Things you always wanted to know the answer to [Vol. 2]
Discussion
Crook said:
How did Patrick Keilty manage to get Cat Deeley to marry him?
I didn't know who she is so I Googled and I think I found your answer:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-27510...
Edited by Tyre Tread on Wednesday 26th November 13:23
SpeckledJim said:
This is the kind of forensic intellect that we need so much more of. Vote scarble.
Permission for giant space diamond: Denied. Meeting over. Put that biscuit back.
I'm all for public projects that don't pay back but improve quality of life or just generally make humanity look cool. If I were King of The World I would sign off on a space diamond in a heart beat.Permission for giant space diamond: Denied. Meeting over. Put that biscuit back.
Imagine that when aliens show up and we invite them down to the surface.. on a fricking diamond elevator and I want a space plan to Mars please, which we will terraform.
scarble said:
SpeckledJim said:
This is the kind of forensic intellect that we need so much more of. Vote scarble.
Permission for giant space diamond: Denied. Meeting over. Put that biscuit back.
I'm all for public projects that don't pay back but improve quality of life or just generally make humanity look cool. If I were King of The World I would sign off on a space diamond in a heart beat.Permission for giant space diamond: Denied. Meeting over. Put that biscuit back.
Imagine that when aliens show up and we invite them down to the surface.. on a fricking diamond elevator and I want a space plan to Mars please, which we will terraform.
Massive fun-multiplier, yet zero impact on my space pounds.
The scene in the Italian Job when they are loading the minis onto the coach. What driving technique would be required to make a neat job of it?
Assuming the coach is doing a steady 30 mph, the cars would need to have been going fast enough to make it up the ramp, but would have had to allow for the fact that the front wheels would have to go from at the speed needed for 30+ mph to just the speed needed to climb the ramp, while the engine provided enough power to elevate the car and move it forward by the difference in the velocites of the car and coach.
IYSWIM
Assuming the coach is doing a steady 30 mph, the cars would need to have been going fast enough to make it up the ramp, but would have had to allow for the fact that the front wheels would have to go from at the speed needed for 30+ mph to just the speed needed to climb the ramp, while the engine provided enough power to elevate the car and move it forward by the difference in the velocites of the car and coach.
IYSWIM
singlecoil said:
The scene in the Italian Job when they are loading the minis onto the coach. What driving technique would be required to make a neat job of it?
Assuming the coach is doing a steady 30 mph, the cars would need to have been going fast enough to make it up the ramp, but would have had to allow for the fact that the front wheels would have to go from at the speed needed for 30+ mph to just the speed needed to climb the ramp, while the engine provided enough power to elevate the car and move it forward by the difference in the velocites of the car and coach.
IYSWIM
I think it's probably harder than it looks, especially in a FWD car, and I'm prepared to bet it took a lot of takes to get right. They did the same stunt on Knight Rider but as that was in a RWD car it would just have been a case of driving onto the ramp then slamming the brakes on.Assuming the coach is doing a steady 30 mph, the cars would need to have been going fast enough to make it up the ramp, but would have had to allow for the fact that the front wheels would have to go from at the speed needed for 30+ mph to just the speed needed to climb the ramp, while the engine provided enough power to elevate the car and move it forward by the difference in the velocites of the car and coach.
IYSWIM
singlecoil said:
The scene in the Italian Job when they are loading the minis onto the coach. What driving technique would be required to make a neat job of it?
Assuming the coach is doing a steady 30 mph, the cars would need to have been going fast enough to make it up the ramp, but would have had to allow for the fact that the front wheels would have to go from at the speed needed for 30+ mph to just the speed needed to climb the ramp, while the engine provided enough power to elevate the car and move it forward by the difference in the velocites of the car and coach.
IYSWIM
From a long history of forensic Knight Rider watching, my conclusion was that it takes some practical experience but that it is quite easy because of wheel spin.Assuming the coach is doing a steady 30 mph, the cars would need to have been going fast enough to make it up the ramp, but would have had to allow for the fact that the front wheels would have to go from at the speed needed for 30+ mph to just the speed needed to climb the ramp, while the engine provided enough power to elevate the car and move it forward by the difference in the velocites of the car and coach.
IYSWIM
The worry would be that with perfect traction (and enough power) you would shoot up the ramp at 30+ mph and probably shoot all the way off the front of the lorry!
However what seems to happen is that the drivers hit the ramp with a good bit of momentum and then brake quite hard to prevent the above. Wheel spin here helps a lot because dropping the wheels from 30+mph to almost zero is very hard/impossible - so they lose traction on the ramp.
Don't forget that once you are on the ramp 100%, it becomes the rather simple job of just driving up an incline and onto the flat surface of the lorry. In fact with the mini's FWD it doesn't even matter much if the back drops back onto the road as long as you are hanging on the clutch not brake.
walm said:
The worry would be that with perfect traction (and enough power) you would shoot up the ramp at 30+ mph and probably shoot all the way off the front of the lorry!
But even if the power and traction was available, the throttle wouldn't be open that far, the driver would have been virtually cruising before mounting the ramp, and to hit the cab would need to provide the power needed to accelerate the car to 30+ plus another 30.They covered this in Mythbusters (admittedly using RWD rather than FWD): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYlstdCWzCY
Hugo a Gogo said:
the real question is "what's the point?"
wouldn't it be quicker, easier, safer and less obviously criminal to just pull off the road somewhere and load the minis onboard while the bus was stopped?
All except quicker, then yes.wouldn't it be quicker, easier, safer and less obviously criminal to just pull off the road somewhere and load the minis onboard while the bus was stopped?
Assuming the bus is at vmax, and is on the critical path, then the way they did it was fastest.
SpeckledJim said:
Disconnect rear brakes. Drive into the ramp at, say 50 mph (delta of, say 10mph) in 4th. Once the front wheels are on, brakes on, select 1st, drive up the ramp.
No?
With a bit of prep you could work out what speed you'd require to freewheel onto a stationary coach and get all four wheels on board. Call this X. Factor in some rolling and wind resistance and call this Y. Add X and Y to the speed that the coach is travelling at and you have an approach speed. Dip the clutch as the front wheels reach the ramp, get all four wheels on board and then jump on the brakes.No?
VladD said:
With a bit of prep you could work out what speed you'd require to freewheel onto a stationary coach and get all four wheels on board. Call this X. Factor in some rolling and wind resistance and call this Y. Add X and Y to the speed that the coach is travelling at and you have an approach speed. Dip the clutch as the front wheels reach the ramp, get all four wheels on board and then jump on the brakes.
I think this is wrong for a couple of reasons.Let's ignore Y for a moment because that will be small.
If you were right about X then it's a bad idea to "jump on the brakes" because you would then fail to get up the ramp.
X is the freewheel speed needed to get up the ramp and onto the flat bit right?
So braking will mess with that.
You just need to clutch-in and leave the brakes alone.
However the other factor you have ignored which could be big (perhaps with Knight Rider more than the minis) is that effectively throwing a car at a lorry will transfer SOME momentum to the lorry.
So even if you hit the ramp at X (which works with a fixed stationary lorry) you need more than X when the lorry is moving because your momentum relative to the moving lorry will be lower than stationary even at the same speed.
Actually the best way to do it would be to have a stationary lorry but NOT fixed. Let it roll forward as you hit it, then you have the right X.
AND don't hit the brakes when you are on the ramp - the ramp does all the slowing for you.
singlecoil said:
But even if the power and traction was available, the throttle wouldn't be open that far, the driver would have been virtually cruising before mounting the ramp, and to hit the cab would need to provide the power needed to accelerate the car to 30+ plus another 30.
No. At 30+ relative to the ground - there is zero acceleration - it's a constant speed.(Of course, the accelerator is still pressed since you need to overcome rolling and air resistance - but you aren't getting faster or slower - so you aren't accelerating in a physics sense.)
Now forget the ramp for a moment.
Just imagine a big crane (also going 30) picks up the car. Nothing else changes - you keep your foot on the throttle (maybe throttle down a little since no rolling resistance now) so your speedo still reads 30-ish.
Then it drops you onto a flatbed truck.
With full traction and enough power - you would be back up the 30mph ON THE TRUCK quite quickly!
That is the speed the wheels are going at, the instant you hit the floor of the flatbed.
(Although I think most likely the car would stall with too much traction since the power needed to go from zero to 30 instantly is in theory infinite.)
The point is that it isn't the power needed to get to 30+ plus 30 because you are ALREADY going at 30+.
It's just the power needed to get to 30.
Edited by walm on Thursday 27th November 16:06
walm said:
VladD said:
With a bit of prep you could work out what speed you'd require to freewheel onto a stationary coach and get all four wheels on board. Call this X. Factor in some rolling and wind resistance and call this Y. Add X and Y to the speed that the coach is travelling at and you have an approach speed. Dip the clutch as the front wheels reach the ramp, get all four wheels on board and then jump on the brakes.
I think this is wrong for a couple of reasons.Let's ignore Y for a moment because that will be small.
If you were right about X then it's a bad idea to "jump on the brakes" because you would then fail to get up the ramp.
X is the freewheel speed needed to get up the ramp and onto the flat bit right?
So braking will mess with that.
You just need to clutch-in and leave the brakes alone.
However the other factor you have ignored which could be big (perhaps with Knight Rider more than the minis) is that effectively throwing a car at a lorry will transfer SOME momentum to the lorry.
So even if you hit the ramp at X (which works with a fixed stationary lorry) you need more than X when the lorry is moving because your momentum relative to the moving lorry will be lower than stationary even at the same speed.
Actually the best way to do it would be to have a stationary lorry but NOT fixed. Let it roll forward as you hit it, then you have the right X.
AND don't hit the brakes when you are on the ramp - the ramp does all the slowing for you.
Most of the force of the car driving onto the ramp will be downwards, not in the direction of travel.
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