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knk

403 posts

151 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
I escorted some veterans of the War in North Africa back to Libya a few years ago. The people were friendly, respectful and practised their religion in a quiet and moderate way. Their oft repeated wish was to be allowed a place back on the world stage and to escape from the isolation they had suffered since their last revolution.

They were extremely grateful to our veterans and the cemeteries were immaculately kept, by the Libyans.
I am sure this is the action of a few extremists, but I do worry that extremists tend to thrive in a power vacuum.

Kam

Jimbeaux

26,953 posts

111 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
Mermaid said:
Jimbeaux said:
True to an extent. "All that" in many ways is what gives us our values and drive. smile
Jim is in a generous mood today thumbup
It's Friday.

Rude-boy

17,907 posts

113 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
Mermaid said:
Jimbeaux said:
True to an extent. "All that" in many ways is what gives us our values and drive. smile
Jim is in a generous mood today thumbup
yes

I have to get some work done but would love to get my teeth into this debate as it covers a lot of the basic ground on my socio-political and religious theories.

America is certainly a stronger place due to the sound basis of a lot of the values the majority of the population hold dear. Where I stand though is that the religious element, and therefore the extremes that that brings, is superfluous to it all in an enlightened society and if anything only ends up in detracting from the ultimate ideal and the willingness of people to modify their ways. By that I include all religions from Islam to Judaism to Shinto to RC to Protestant and so on.

Religion is nothing more than a means to control the behaviour of a large group of people, just like a government. The difference is that one uses the fear of removal of your personal life, liberty and/or chattels to impose its will as well as the lifetime persecution of the individual by those who follow the word of the government unquestioningly. The other uses the fear of eternal damnation and so forth (I am obviously simplifying for brevity) and in the case of theocracies has both decks to play with.

TeamD

3,648 posts

112 months

[news] 
Saturday 3rd March 2012 quote quote all
Jimbeaux said:
Mermaid said:
Jimbeaux said:
True to an extent. "All that" in many ways is what gives us our values and drive. smile
Jim is in a generous mood today thumbup
It's Friday.
That'll be not the be usual riot after prayers then?

Only kidding btw biggrin

TotalControl

6,535 posts

78 months

[news] 
Saturday 3rd March 2012 quote quote all
Not trying to open up another can of worms, but it usually is misguided turnips that do these sort of things, and they can be from any religion/sect/culture.

http://www.demotix.com/news/919348/mamilla-islamic...

However, the so called 'Muslims' in the OP video are complete dheads for doing what they did. There's no disputing that.
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Mojocvh

14,134 posts

142 months

[news] 
Saturday 3rd March 2012 quote quote all
TeamD said:
Jimbeaux said:
Mermaid said:
Jimbeaux said:
True to an extent. "All that" in many ways is what gives us our values and drive. smile
Jim is in a generous mood today thumbup
It's Friday.
That'll be not the be usual riot after prayers then?


jayb289

122 posts

36 months

[news] 
Saturday 3rd March 2012 quote quote all
but i thought these were the "good guys", i mean the "allies" usually get it right... oh wait lol

lets be honest here, libya was never about giving people their freedom and human rights, neither is it in syria, iran or any other arab country. i can tell you one thing, all the do gooders on here who keep making threads talking about assad and all the other nutcases acting like you lose sleep over whats happening in the middle east will probably live to regret your words. i never forgot on op herrick when the taliban was using the same fire and maneuver tactics we and the yanks used, how did they learn it? it was taught to them(some of them were old mujahadeen and passed on the know how) to help defeat the russians and they tweaked it to devastating effect.
countries like iran, syria etc needs to be run by people like assad and khameni, but i see people on here complaining about people getting their heads smashed in when they try to kick off in iran, but then complain about the afghanis getting out of hand, what do you think will happen if the government is overrun and "rebels" take over. the middle east is not london, they dont attack charity shops, they attack embassies armed with gimpys and not one phook is given. as long as we meddle in their business, things like this will happen, anybody whose ever been to that side of the world will tell yo they hate the british far more than they do nazi germany, so kicking over world war 2 graves means nothing to them.

Edited by jayb289 on Saturday 3rd March 01:46

MX7

7,860 posts

54 months

[news] 
Saturday 3rd March 2012 quote quote all
jayb289 said:
countries like iran, syria etc needs to be run by people like assad and khameni
I thought you said that there was no significant difference between any politicians?

jayb289 said:
as straight up as i see any other politician whether at home or abroad
Yet now you seem to be able to distinguish the difference between "people like assad" and other politicians quite easily.


Victor McDade

4,395 posts

62 months

[news] 
Saturday 3rd March 2012 quote quote all
Democracy is a gradual process. You can't expect people who have been ruled over by force and tyranny for so long to suddenly live as we do as soon as the dictator is gone.

Suggesting that these nations can only function with a dictator is factually incorrect imo.

Muslims seem to do okay with democracy in places like Indonesia, Malaysia and Turkey. So is it really a religious thing?

And look at the post imperial democracies of last century. When the 'masters' left it took decades for the rule of law and politics to stabilise but it did so eventually (take India as an example).


TheHeretic

73,668 posts

135 months

[news] 
Saturday 3rd March 2012 quote quote all
Victor McDade said:
Muslims seem to do okay with democracy in places like Indonesia, Malaysia and Turkey. So is it really a religious thing?
The same malaysia that deported a Saudi national for saying some really quite terrible things on twitter? he had the temerity to be on a Saudi watchlist of pro-democracy activists. How dare he.

Yeah, some great democracies out there. This chap could well be executed for what he said, which was really not in any way offensive. The following video shows what was said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1ho8tunttg

madala

4,921 posts

78 months

[news] 
Saturday 3rd March 2012 quote quote all
Elroy Blue said:
It was always going to happen of course. This cemetry survived all the years under Gadaffi and then this happens.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=54c_1330621949
.....My god....I did three seconds of that and it was enough to make me want to KILL this scum......s.

Jimbeaux

26,953 posts

111 months

[news] 
Monday 5th March 2012 quote quote all
Victor McDade said:
Democracy is a gradual process. You can't expect people who have been ruled over by force and tyranny for so long to suddenly live as we do as soon as the dictator is gone.

Suggesting that these nations can only function with a dictator is factually incorrect imo.

Muslims seem to do okay with democracy in places like Indonesia, Malaysia and Turkey. So is it really a religious thing?

And look at the post imperial democracies of last century. When the 'masters' left it took decades for the rule of law and politics to stabilise but it did so eventually (take India as an example).
South Africa can fit into that mould in a some ways.

Frankeh

12,558 posts

65 months

[news] 
Monday 5th March 2012 quote quote all
Just a bunch of s being s. Every country has them.

This would be like the Libyans watching an EDL march and thinking that was an accurate representation of the british people.

Basically, keep calm and carry on.

Soovy

32,881 posts

151 months

[news] 
Monday 5th March 2012 quote quote all
Frankeh said:
Basically, keep calm and carry on.
bks.

How would you feel if your father was being dug up?

Bill

30,311 posts

135 months

[news] 
Monday 5th March 2012 quote quote all
Soovy said:
bks.

How would you feel if your father was being dug up?
Let's not get too carried away, they're not digging people up, they've smashed some gravestones.

Frankeh

12,558 posts

65 months

[news] 
Monday 5th March 2012 quote quote all
Soovy said:
Frankeh said:
Basically, keep calm and carry on.
bks.

How would you feel if your father was being dug up?
No one was dug up. Stop talking bks.
A few grave stones were knocked over and they hammered at a cross a bit. The authorities have apologised profusely and there's already efforts under way to repair the damage.

As I said, keep calm and carry on.

MX7

7,860 posts

54 months

[news] 
Monday 5th March 2012 quote quote all
Soovy said:
Frankeh said:
Basically, keep calm and carry on.
bks.

How would you feel if your father was being dug up?
What do you think we should do Soovy?

Frankeh

12,558 posts

65 months

[news] 
Monday 5th March 2012 quote quote all
MX7 said:
Soovy said:
Frankeh said:
Basically, keep calm and carry on.
bks.

How would you feel if your father was being dug up?
What do you think we should do Soovy?
Pre-emptive nuclear strike against everything he doesn't understand. We're doomed.

Mr_B

5,701 posts

123 months

[news] 
Monday 5th March 2012 quote quote all
Frankeh said:
Just a bunch of s being s. Every country has them.

This would be like the Libyans watching an EDL march and thinking that was an accurate representation of the british people.

Basically, keep calm and carry on.
No, it would be like if a bunch of Muslims in the Middle East burnt a copy of a dictionary and the EDL went and filmed themselves desecrating grave stones/sites as a direct response to that.
As you might see, that would be totally retarded. As much as I dislike the EDL, they are free to march and express their opinion, the two not even being close to comparison.

Frankeh

12,558 posts

65 months

[news] 
Monday 5th March 2012 quote quote all
Mr_B said:
the two not even being close to comparison.
Google search that took 10 seconds.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/edl-mem...

Totally comparable and I bet there's many more examples but I'm not going to waste any more of my time looking them up.

To reiterate, every country has s including our own. Just ignore them.
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