S1 Elise kit-car

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Discussion

rhinochopig

Original Poster:

17,932 posts

197 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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These are getting into donor territory now cost wise. The body work is non structural, they offer possibly the best handling of any road car, are mid engined RWD as standard, and there is a huge parts and tuning community.

So how long before we start to see some re bodies?

I'm amazed there hasn't been any mini Grp C car re-bodies so far - or I've just missed them biggrin

ceebmoj

1,898 posts

260 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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Why re-body? I cant see any motivation to do so. As far as I can see the new body work would only be a stilling change in witch case there is already the VX220 to consider

1. The Elise body work does not rust.
2. It is very easy to swap a clam if you damage it and there is also a good supply of calms on eBay.
3. If you are a badge snob you start out with a Lotus and end up with a random.

Having said all of that there are lotus Exige bodys out there for around 2k


rhinochopig

Original Poster:

17,932 posts

197 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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ceebmoj said:
Why re-body? I cant see any motivation to do so. As far as I can see the new body work would only be a stilling change in witch case there is already the VX220 to consider

1. The Elise body work does not rust.
2. It is very easy to swap a clam if you damage it and there is also a good supply of calms on eBay.
3. If you are a badge snob you start out with a Lotus and end up with a random.

Having said all of that there are lotus Exige bodys out there for around 2k

Which shows there is a market of sorts.

In response to your points:

1. I agree, but the design is dated looking now and 10k for a tatty one is firmly in donor territory.
2. See dated argument
3. For what they're selling for now, the badge snobbery is probably less of an issue.


They also offer a couple of very real benefits in that the windscreen is suitably shaped (a big cost in a kit) as are elements like lights. Both of which make a re-body potentially very easy.

We also see loads of threads in this section about people building their own Grp C style car, or asking what kits there are out there that are mid engined, handle well, are hard top, which is the key thing, but are not an uUtima.

If someone can do a Exige body for ~ 2k, someone could produce something similar with closer sports racer inspired looks for not much more.

I suspect if you could offer something akin to this



as a kit then they may sell.

Furyblade_Lee

4,107 posts

223 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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I quite fancy an Elise rebody to resemble a GTM Libra. Nice.

Stuart Mills

1,208 posts

205 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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I agree they are a great handling car, but 10k you mention for a tatty donor sounds rather a lot to cut up. I did find the cockpit rather narrow too.

ceebmoj

1,898 posts

260 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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rhinochopig said:
Interesting stuff
You can get a tatty one for a lot less than 10k try closer to 6k. Having said that I'm not relay sure that the badge snobbery argument is valid, Many people choues the Lotus over the VX220 because of the badge couple that with prices gently rising. The unknown value of rebodyed one. having said all of that you could put the other body back on if you wanted.

I think that the Exige body work grew out of track use / racing where a lot gets damaged it also adds the benefit of being able to take the rear calm off much faster.

It would be interested to see what the reaction over at seloc would be I suspect public hanging but you never know.

For me I can see the value in using the screen or to a lesser extent other off the self bits i.e. breaks that are now available for a low cost second hand. But if you use the rest of the platform, unless you change the engine or the weight then the performance is going to be very similar. as weight there is not a huge amount that can be striped out of an Elise I don't see how you get the weight down by much. So the performance remains very similar to the Elise. So the only point would be if you can come up with some thing very pretty. T70 style body maybe.

mmm T70 spider maybe you do have a good point.






ceebmoj

1,898 posts

260 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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Stuart Mills said:
I agree they are a great handling car, but 10k you mention for a tatty donor sounds rather a lot to cut up. I did find the cockpit rather narrow too.
That's the interior of a later one witch is also easer to get in and out off I think because is slightly wider where the beams are. For this reason I think the idea would work best with out doors.

Sam_68

9,939 posts

244 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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ceebmoj said:
That's the interior of a later one which is also easer to get in and out off I think because is slightly wider where the beams are.
I'm pretty sure the width between the beams is the same for the Series 1 and Series 2 cars. It's the depth of the beams that was decreased slightly on the S2, allowing a slightly deeper door opening.

It's got to be said that the S1 was a bit of a bd to get in and out of with the hood or hard top in place, when you're fat and middle aged. I usually kept mine garaged with the roof off, which made access much easier.


Edited by Sam_68 on Wednesday 7th March 18:48

61GT

578 posts

179 months

Friday 9th March 2012
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If you don't mind me saying this thread demonstrates a lot of what's wrong with the Kit Car industry. Instead of promoting innovative/exciting/radical new designs such as the Ariel Atom (in itself now the subject of many copies) there is a suggestion that somehow re-bodying an Elise S1 represents progress/the way forward. I can't imagine this in any way being better than the original whether this is on looks, desirability, value, etc.

Before I get flamed I've owned a Ginetta G15 and Caterham 7 in the past and I'm a huge fan of what the Kit Car industry in this country can produce - I just don't think that this is the way to achieve it.

Sam_68

9,939 posts

244 months

Saturday 10th March 2012
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But then right from the beginning, there have been two sides to the industry: the cars that used bespoke chassis (like Lotus, Ginetta, Westfield) and those that used a mass-produced rolling chassis - everything from Austin Sevens through to Volkswagen Beetles, Triumph Heralds and even Range Rovers?

I think there's room for both.

...though I would question the commercial viability of using the Elise chassis: as has been said, the original bodyshell doesn't deteriorate unless you crash it badly (in which case the chances are you'll write the chassis off as well), so all you'd be doing is spending a lot of money to turn a Lotus into something that is regarded by the majority of the public as being less valuable and less desirable than the car you started out with.

For what it's worth, the Elise's handling isn't all that, either. It's got sublime steering feel and better resolved ride and handling than many kits, but the S1's are snappy little bds at the limit and the S2's (in an attempt to make them more idiot-proof) have had quite a bit more understeer built in than many real enthusiasts will appreciate. It's very good for a transverse mid-engined car, but there are kits that can match or surpass it.

qdos

825 posts

209 months

Saturday 10th March 2012
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Sam_68 said:
But then right from the beginning, there have been two sides to the industry: the cars that used bespoke chassis (like Lotus, Ginetta, Westfield) and those that used a mass-produced rolling chassis - everything from Austin Sevens through to Volkswagen Beetles, Triumph Heralds and even Range Rovers?

I think there's room for both.

...though I would question the commercial viability of using the Elise chassis: as has been said, the original bodyshell doesn't deteriorate unless you crash it badly (in which case the chances are you'll write the chassis off as well), so all you'd be doing is spending a lot of money to turn a Lotus into something that is regarded by the majority of the public as being less valuable and less desirable than the car you started out with.

For what it's worth, the Elise's handling isn't all that, either. It's got sublime steering feel and better resolved ride and handling than many kits, but the S1's are snappy little bds at the limit and the S2's (in an attempt to make them more idiot-proof) have had quite a bit more understeer built in than many real enthusiasts will appreciate. It's very good for a transverse mid-engined car, but there are kits that can match or surpass it.
I tend to agree with all this particularly the last sentence as I've driven both and can confirm there are kits that make the Elise seem like a town car. Ironically though the Elise does tend to often be more practical when doing comparisons. To me though you can not do much better than an Elise, for what it is it is superb.

slomax

6,646 posts

191 months

Saturday 10th March 2012
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qdos said:
I tend to agree with all this particularly the last sentence as I've driven both and can confirm there are kits that make the Elise seem like a town car. Ironically though the Elise does tend to often be more practical when doing comparisons. To me though you can not do much better than an Elise, for what it is it is superb.
I have heard many people say that the 1800vvc GTM libra is actually a better car than the elise (in terms of practicality and driving), and these can be picked up for about £6-8k. having never owned either, i was interested as to what others peoples opinions are on the GTM vs Elise?

61GT

578 posts

179 months

Saturday 10th March 2012
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slomax said:
I have heard many people say that the 1800vvc GTM libra is actually a better car than the elise (in terms of practicality and driving), and these can be picked up for about £6-8k. having never owned either, i was interested as to what others peoples opinions are on the GTM vs Elise?
I can't comment on the Libra but I bought an S1 Elise a few weeks ago and I'm absolutely loving it. I always thought that the Libra was a fantastic looking car (especially in coupe form) that seemed well engineered and thought out as well as being quite distinctive from most mainstream sports cars. Shame they stopped making them.

rdodger

1,088 posts

202 months

Saturday 10th March 2012
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Having owned a Libra for 4 years I can say that they are a lot more practical than an Elise. Reasonable boot and storage behind the seats.

In terms of performance mine was a match for an S1 Exige. It didn't start off that way though. To get it to handle as well as an Exige I had to get Z Cars to redesign the rear suspension.

As for an Elise as a donor car I really don't see it being viable. As already said the Elise would be more valuable than the resulting kit car.

What I would love to see is a replacement for the Libra. I just can't see that it could be produced cheaply enough to sell in big numbers especially if you wanted to use a monocoque. Originally you could build one for around 12k by the end of production it was nearer 20k.

ChrisJ.

563 posts

239 months

Saturday 29th August 2015
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geeeman

1,310 posts

254 months

Monday 31st August 2015
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ChrisJ. said:
this looks a great idea

ugg10

681 posts

216 months

Monday 31st August 2015
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Looks like either a bonito or a sereph to me, oriinally front engine rwd.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
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A number of individuals (and at least two companies) have taken the front two-thirds of an Elise and fitted an extended rear subframe with a longitudinal engine in it. Obviously that requires fabricating new rear bodywork to fit the longer wheelbase; typically they try to mimic the design of the Elise but there's no reason one shouldn't redesign the bodywork from scratch, I suppose. For example:


ugg10

681 posts

216 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
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kambites said:
A number of individuals (and at least two companies) have taken the front two-thirds of an Elise and fitted an extended rear subframe with a longitudinal engine in it. Obviously that requires fabricating new rear bodywork to fit the longer wheelbase; typically they try to mimic the design of the Elise but there's no reason one shouldn't redesign the bodywork from scratch, I suppose. For example
The ultimate version on that basis is the hennessey venom, exige chassis (ish) with 1200hp twin turbo ls7.

A marriage of an elise front end with a sdr storm scooby rear frame bolted on the back with an elise gt1 body kit would be interesting. Elise motorsport body kits availabke on eBay as a starter to chop/extend/modify.



dom9

8,040 posts

208 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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ugg10 said:
The ultimate version on that basis is the hennessey venom, exige chassis (ish) with 1200hp twin turbo ls7.

A marriage of an elise front end with a sdr storm scooby rear frame bolted on the back with an elise gt1 body kit would be interesting. Elise motorsport body kits availabke on eBay as a starter to chop/extend/modify.
I would buy this!

I followed that V10 build from the start and I think it looks fantastic.

Longitudinal engine/'box and extended rear bodywork... Can't cost that much, can it?

Ok, maybe a V10 or Porsche engine would but the Scooby idea is interesting!

A guy in Practical Performance Car recently bought a crash damaged (not badly) car for £3,800.