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horsepowerfreek

Original Poster:

7 posts

16 months

[news] 
Wednesday 28th March 2012 quote quote all
I am new to flow testing and flow benches. I would like to write a program of my own to use with it. What things would be important to include in such a program.
Randy

mtrehy

18 posts

16 months

[news] 
Wednesday 28th March 2012 quote quote all
coincidentally I bought flowsoft excel for my bench 2 days ago:

http://www.cavanaughracing.com/flowsoftexcel.html

this is designed specifically for flowbenches running a PTS digital manometer (which mine does), but even if yours doesn't it should give you a great idea of what is possible and for only 50 US dollars might save you a load of time.



DutchWhizzMan

7 posts

16 months

[news] 
Wednesday 28th March 2012 quote quote all
Plus the cost of windows and the cost of excel. That's a little more than 50 dollars.

PeterBurgess

73 posts

15 months

[news] 
Thursday 29th March 2012 quote quote all
Hiya

I wrote an html based javascript to do the maths for my floating depression flow bench I attach the code here, to use it you need to adjust variable C if you do not agree with the 0.596 CD I use. If you copy and paste it in a text editor such as Notepad and save it as a .html or .htm extension it should fire up in a web browser, sometimes you have to tell the browser to run scripts. The script is not well written but I am self taught and it does work. It takes into account temp/pressure/humidity and assumes isentropic flow conditions. I am not going to enter into the ins and outs of the maths, suffice it to say it has been used by at least three students as part of their theses to gain Engineering degrees. If you use the code elsewhere please be polite enough to say it is written by Peter Burgess'. I hope you get as much enjoyment from flow benching as I have for the last 28 years!

Peter

<html>
<head>
<title>Flowbench JavaScript</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<script>
<!--
var A = prompt("Enter valve diameter in millimetres","Valve diameter");
var X = prompt("Enter the reading on manometer X in millimetres", "Reading on Manometer X in millimetres");
var Y = prompt("Enter the reading on manometer Y in millimetres", "Reading on Manometer Y in millimetres");
var T = prompt("Enter the temperature reading in degrees centigrade", "Temperature in degrees C");
var P = prompt("Enter the atmospheric pressure reading in millibars", "Atmospheric pressure in millibars");
var V = prompt("Enter the vapour pressure of water at test temperature T centigrade", "Vapour pressure in N/m2");
var H = prompt("Enter the relative humidity as a decimal pointage", "Relative Humidity");
var O = prompt ("Enter the orifice diameter in millimetres","Orifice diameter in millimetres");
var O = eval(O);
var O = O/2000;
var O = eval(O);
var O = Math.pow(O,2);
var O = eval(O);
var O = 3.1415927 * O;
var O = eval(O);
var A = eval(A);
var X = eval(X);
var Y = eval(Y);
var T = eval(T);
var P = eval(P);
var V = eval(V);
var H = eval(H);
var X = X * 9.81;
var Y = Y * 9.81;
var Pr = P * 100;
var Pr = eval(Pr);
var dP = Pr-Y-X;
var dP = eval(dP);
var ndP = (dP * 1.404);
var ndP = eval(ndP);
var ndP = (X / ndP);
var ndP = eval(ndP);
var S = 1-(0.410072 * ndP);
var S = eval(S);
var Q = Pr-Y;
var Q = eval(Q);
var T = (T + 273);
var T = eval(T);
var K = (.378 * V * H);
var K = eval(K);
var Zz = (Q - K);
var Zz = eval(Zz);
var R = (Zz / T);
var R = eval(R);
var d = (R * 0.003482);
var d = eval(d);
var A = (A/2);
var A = eval(A);
var A = (A/1000);
var A = eval(A);
var A = Math.pow(A,2);
var A = eval(A);
var A =(A * 3.1415927);
var A = eval(A);
var C = 0.596;
var C = eval(C);
var B = (2 * d * X);
var B = eval(B);
var B = Math.pow(B,0.5);
var B = eval(B);
var M = (O * C * S * B);
var M = eval(M);
var V = (M / 1.225);
var V = eval(V);
var Z = ( 6229.35 / Y);
var Z = eval(Z);
var Z = Math.pow(Z,0.5);
var Z = eval(Z);
var F = (V * Z * 2118.8802);
var F = eval(F);
var F = F * 100;
var F = eval(F);
var F = Math.round(F) / 100;
var F = eval(F);
var E = (0.000789 / A);
var E = eval(E);
var E = (E * 0.62);
var E = eval(E);
var J = ( X / Y);
var J = eval(J);
var J = Math.pow(J,0.5);
var J = eval(J);
var Cd = (J * E);
var Cd = Cd * 100;
var Cd = eval(Cd);
var Cd = Math.round(Cd) / 100;
var Cd = eval(Cd);
var F = F * 100;
var F = eval(F);
var F = Math.round(F) / 100;
var F = eval(F);
var Cot = F * 0.632;
var Cot = eval(Cot);
var Cot = Cot * 100;
var Cot = eval(Cot);
var Cot = Math.round(Cot)/100;
var Coe = F * 0.775;
var Coe = eval(Coe);
var Coe = Coe * 100;
var Coe = eval(Coe);
var Coe = Math.round(Coe)/100;
var Cof = F * 1.058;
var Cof = eval(Cof);
var Cof = Cof * 100;
var Cof = eval(Cof);
var Cof = Math.round(Cof)/100;
function MM_goToURL() { //v3.0
var i, args=MM_goToURL.arguments; document.MM_returnValue = false;
for (i=0; i<(args.length-1); i+=2) eval(args[i]+".location='"+args[i+1]+"'");
}
//-->
</script>

</head>

<body bgcolor="#000066" text="#CCCCCC" link="#99FFFF" oncontextmenu="return false">
<div id="Layer3" style="position:absolute; width:200px; height:115px; z-index:4; left: 18px; top: 286px"><img src="img0.gif" width="468" height="114"></div>
<script>
document.write("The airflow is "+ F + " c.f.m. at 25 inches H2O.");
document.write("<BR>The airflow is "+ Cot + " c.f.m. at 10 inches H2O.");
document.write("<BR>The airflow is "+ Coe +" c.f.m. at 15 inches H2O.");
document.write("<BR>The airflow is "+ Cof + " c.f.m. at 28 inches H2O.");
document.write("<BR>The coefficient of discharge is " + Cd );

</script>
<div id="Layer1" style="position:absolute; width:200px; height:45px; z-index:3; left: 13px; top: 176px">
<form name="form1" >
<input type="button" name="Button2" value="Click here to evaluate more flow figures" onClick="MM_goToURL('parent','flowmaths.html');return document.MM_returnValue">
</form>
</div>
<div id="Layer4" style="position:absolute; width:475px; height:35px; z-index:5; left: 23px; top: 411px">

</div>
</body>
</html>

Workshop

38 posts

16 months

[news] 
Friday 30th March 2012 quote quote all
Hi Peter, can you tell me more about your FD flowbench?
Advertisement

mtrehy

18 posts

16 months

[news] 
Friday 30th March 2012 quote quote all
DutchWhizzMan said:
Plus the cost of windows and the cost of excel. That's a little more than 50 dollars.
Useful contribution.

Probably safe to assume that someone who is planning to write their own software might have worked that out for themselves though..

PeterBurgess

73 posts

15 months

[news] 
Friday 30th March 2012 quote quote all
By floating depression I mean the bench is not set to a specific pressure drop such as 10/15/20/25/28" water. The air is pulled through an orifice in a drum with more than 4d (diameter orifice) upstream/downstream and above/below the orifice. This 'isolates' the orifice from effects of expansion and contraction of air and more or less means the efficiency is 0.596, pressure drop is measured by means of corner tappings. The test piece is upstream of the orifice with a pressure tapping to measure the drop across the piece. The flow can be calculated from the pds, temp/pressure and humidity, the maths converts the pd to whatever we decide. As I said, it has worked well since I built it in 1984.

I used the following sources to develop my bench (which took me from 1982 to 1985 to achieve repeatable results, any Unis out there who would like to give me an Honourary Degree for stubborness/persistance?).
Eastop and McConkey Applied Thermodynamics for Engineering Technologists (I actually wrote to Eastop and asked for advice only to be told it was beyond my abilities and get it done at a College....red rag to a bull!)
Ower and Pankhurst, Air Flow Measurement
Campbell The sports car engine: its tuning and modification
Annand and Roe Gas Flow in the Internal Combustion Engine
BS1042
Various publications my Chartered Surveyor Dad had on conduit flow for heating/airconditioning/ventilation

My PTS DMs have arrived so we will get to work and test em out and run em in tandem with my U manometers. Will keep folk informed.

Peter

bucksmanuk

515 posts

39 months

[news] 
Saturday 31st March 2012 quote quote all
PeterBurgess said:
Eastop and McConkey Applied Thermodynamics for Engineering Technologists (I actually wrote to Eastop and asked for advice only to be told it was beyond my abilities and get it done at a College....red rag to a bull!)
Peter
Strewth mate - if there's a few words that sums up the approach of academics to the outside world - its those. What an attitude...rolleyes

MFaulks

34 posts

70 months

[news] 
Monday 2nd April 2012 quote quote all
PeterBurgess said:
By floating depression I mean the bench is not set to a specific pressure drop such as 10/15/20/25/28" water. The air is pulled through an orifice in a drum with more than 4d (diameter orifice) upstream/downstream and above/below the orifice. This 'isolates' the orifice from effects of expansion and contraction of air and more or less means the efficiency is 0.596, pressure drop is measured by means of corner tappings. The test piece is upstream of the orifice with a pressure tapping to measure the drop across the piece. The flow can be calculated from the pds, temp/pressure and humidity, the maths converts the pd to whatever we decide. As I said, it has worked well since I built it in 1984.

I used the following sources to develop my bench (which took me from 1982 to 1985 to achieve repeatable results, any Unis out there who would like to give me an Honourary Degree for stubborness/persistance?).
Eastop and McConkey Applied Thermodynamics for Engineering Technologists (I actually wrote to Eastop and asked for advice only to be told it was beyond my abilities and get it done at a College....red rag to a bull!)
Ower and Pankhurst, Air Flow Measurement
Campbell The sports car engine: its tuning and modification
Annand and Roe Gas Flow in the Internal Combustion Engine
BS1042
Various publications my Chartered Surveyor Dad had on conduit flow for heating/airconditioning/ventilation

My PTS DMs have arrived so we will get to work and test em out and run em in tandem with my U manometers. Will keep folk informed.

Peter
Well I for one am very grateful for the work you put in Peter, and then generously shared over the years in help and assistance. Back when I was doing my A-levels too many moons ago, I had a fascination with airflow from playing with 2-stroke engines in karting (mostly messing them up than improving them, laugh) and thought I would have a go at carb design for my physics project… having read some of Peter’s (and John Robinson) articles in Performance Bikes, Performance Tuning etc these fuelled my thirst for direct practical knowledge.. I could read much in texts, but turning that into real experience and know-how was what I was lacking, and something I must say cannot be substitute as I have found in later years – real experience is invaluable. So I decided to write to Peter to tap him up on how to build a flow rig for my carb experiment project, letter below was his reply and the start of my real conversion into the dark side!


MFaulks

34 posts

70 months

[news] 
Monday 2nd April 2012 quote quote all
PeterBurgess said:
By floating depression I mean the bench is not set to a specific pressure drop such as 10/15/20/25/28" water. The air is pulled through an orifice in a drum with more than 4d (diameter orifice) upstream/downstream and above/below the orifice. This 'isolates' the orifice from effects of expansion and contraction of air and more or less means the efficiency is 0.596, pressure drop is measured by means of corner tappings. The test piece is upstream of the orifice with a pressure tapping to measure the drop across the piece. The flow can be calculated from the pds, temp/pressure and humidity, the maths converts the pd to whatever we decide. As I said, it has worked well since I built it in 1984.
BTW- are you going to be doing a new head book at any stage, expanded math and applications for a floating depression bench? Sorry Peter - Getto Bensh :-) Having seen the re-sale price of the first editions, if you hurry up and write a new one, I can sell my old one and make some profit!! :-)

Whilst on this topic, do you know what, or rather how Larry Widmer tests flow quality as a figure, in addition to flow quantity? I guess it's a laminar flow assessment, but I can only see this being upstream of the test piece?

PeterBurgess

73 posts

15 months

[news] 
Monday 2nd April 2012 quote quote all
I think you are right Martin, seeing as we are dealing with turbulent or fully developed flow at the speeds we test and the speeds in the actual running unit I cannot see how one defines quality, unless you mean flow breaking off alarmingly, in which case it sounds awful on the bench.

Peter.

Stan Weiss

52 posts

17 months

[news] 
Thursday 5th April 2012 quote quote all
PeterBurgess said:
Hiya

I wrote an html based javascript to do the maths for my floating depression flow bench I attach the code here, to use it you need to adjust variable C if you do not agree with the 0.596 CD I use. If you copy and paste it in a text editor such as Notepad and save it as a .html or .htm extension it should fire up in a web browser, sometimes you have to tell the browser to run scripts. The script is not well written but I am self taught and it does work. It takes into account temp/pressure/humidity and assumes isentropic flow conditions. I am not going to enter into the ins and outs of the maths, suffice it to say it has been used by at least three students as part of their theses to gain Engineering degrees. If you use the code elsewhere please be polite enough to say it is written by Peter Burgess'. I hope you get as much enjoyment from flow benching as I have for the last 28 years!

Peter
Since it wants to be recursive (call itself) it really needs to be names flowmaths.html

Stan

PS I have not really had a chance to check it out, but thanks for posting the code.

Stan Weiss

52 posts

17 months

[news] 
Thursday 5th April 2012 quote quote all
MFaulks said:
BTW- are you going to be doing a new head book at any stage, expanded math and applications for a floating depression bench? Sorry Peter - Getto Bensh :-) Having seen the re-sale price of the first editions, if you hurry up and write a new one, I can sell my old one and make some profit!! :-)

Whilst on this topic, do you know what, or rather how Larry Widmer tests flow quality as a figure, in addition to flow quantity? I guess it's a laminar flow assessment, but I can only see this being upstream of the test piece?
Hi Martin,
How are things going?

Stan

PeterBurgess

73 posts

15 months

[news] 
Thursday 5th April 2012 quote quote all
Hi Stan

I trust you are well?

Thanks for pointing out flowmaths.html has to be the name or it will not re-run itself properly, I told you was self taught smile

Peter

PeterBurgess

73 posts

15 months

[news] 
Monday 9th April 2012 quote quote all
I realise I should have defined the source of the manometer readings for the code;
X is the orifice plate pressure drop in mm of water
Y is the test piece pressure drop in mm water

I should also have stated the maths converts flow rates to STP or 1013.25 mb pressure and 15dgrees Centigrade.

Peter

Stan Weiss

52 posts

17 months

[news] 
Monday 9th April 2012 quote quote all
PeterBurgess said:
I realise I should have defined the source of the manometer readings for the code;
X is the orifice plate pressure drop in mm of water
Y is the test piece pressure drop in mm water

I should also have stated the maths converts flow rates to STP or 1013.25 mb pressure and 15dgrees Centigrade.

Peter
Peter,
Thanks for the additional information. I put together an interface to make it easier to use. I wanted to add a few more things to it but I just have not had the time. http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/flowmath.htm

Stan

PeterBurgess

73 posts

15 months

[news] 
Tuesday 10th April 2012 quote quote all
Hi Stan

That is most neat, thanks for producing such an easy interface.

Peter

MFaulks

34 posts

70 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
Stan Weiss said:
Hi Martin,
How are things going?

Stan
Hi Stan,

Thanks for the note, I'm doing good, just started a new role (yes.. another one), hopeful get more free time now :-)

How are you doing?

Martin

ryandoc

136 posts

24 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th April 2012 quote quote all
Folks,

Just stumbled across this thread and see there's some excellent knowledge on this subject.
I'm no IT guru for writing program's etc but am a flow measurement engineer for a certain large oil company.

I'd be happy to help etc if I can on anything flow related. I was providing some data to a guy from here a couple months back on flow benches.

Thanks

horsepowerfreek

Original Poster:

7 posts

16 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
When placing a sharp edge orfice in a tube and measuring the flow does the orfice see different flow conditioins at the orfice compared to having the orfice in a setting box as in a bench like a superflow bench.
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