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NelsonR32

1,026 posts

56 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
On the plus side, I might be able to pick up a 335i for a steal in a few months time. If you excuse the pun.

Dave Hedgehog

7,136 posts

89 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
NelsonR32 said:
On the plus side, I might be able to pick up a 335i for a steal in a few months time. If you excuse the pun.
and you can buy it back again a few weeks later, and then again and ...

TallbutBuxomly

12,254 posts

101 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
I dont have a bmw but do love bmw's and have many a time considered replacing my audi or getting a bm to run alongside.

So i sent the head of bmw uk an email...


Hi

Firstly my apologies for emailing you directly Mr Abbott however I feel an email to customer services will be either lost in the ether or ignored.

There is a growing PR issue for BMW at the moment with some of your latest cars being stolen using cloned BMW keys. I realise BMW may be aware of this however it is starting to spread across internet forums and is according to certain posts becoming a problem for BMW with various now ex owners stating that they will not be buying another BMW.
In the UK it is going to mean that certain BMW's that may not be in a very high insurance group will start attracting very high and unfavourable insurance quotes putting people off buying them as much as the possibility of theft.

Pistonheads is one of the biggest if not the biggest online motoring forum and in fact BMW have hosted many Pistonheads Sunday Services. Please note this thread from the forum...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

And this one please take special note of last post from the individual who's car was stolen...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

and this one from a bmw specific forum..
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66...

There are others I am sure however I haven't the time to find them all and you haven't the time to read them all either I expect.

As you can see people are talking and this is going to become a bigger and bigger problem for bmw from a PR perspective especially if picked up by watchdog uk. The internet spreads thing like wildfire. People are unhappy as BMW are seen to be non reactive and non fussed about the issue.

I would suggest getting BMW's PR dept onto this and have them get the message out to the press. Possibly along the lines of " BMW are aware of a new trend in vehicle thefts and are investigating the methods used with a view to rectifying any potential security shortfalls as quickly as possible."

BMW's unlike other makes are bought by people passionate about the marque and as such they talk to each other and in this modern tech age bad news spreads very fast. It takes years to build a reputation it takes nowhere near as long to destroy it.

Thanks


The response...


Dear Mr X

Thank you for your email dated April 17, 2012 addressed to Mr Tim Abbott, Managing Director of BMW UK which has been forwarded to me for a response. I am sorry that you have had cause to contact under such circumstances and that this issue has caused you concern. I would however like to thank you for taking the time to contact us regarding this matter,

I wish to assure you that all BMW products sold within the UK Market comply with all EU safety and security requirements. In the UK specifically we ensure that the vehicles are tested against Thatcham requirements. However there are likely to be instances where a determined criminal can establish methods to gain entry into a BMW or any other manufacturers vehicle, regrettably this is outside of our control. I am sure you will appreciate that BMW cannot be held responsible for any incidents of this nature. However, BMW and its partners continue to work closely with the Police to monitor all methods of vehicle theft to ensure our products always remain in the hands of the rightful owner.

Once again, I am sorry you have had cause to contact us under such circumstances and I trust that the information provided is of use.

Yours sincerely

BMW UK

Or to put in simple terms bmw really couldnt give a flying fk about the problem or the bad pr it is generating.....

My response....

Mr Bell.

Sorry to say this is not the response I was hoping for but the response I was expecting. The simple fact is criminals have found a gaping flaw in the security system of certain bmw's between 07 and 2011 and present where they can steal the cars with ease without even breaking the cars windows.

They simply user a jammer to block the car from locking then plug a key coder into the obd port and code a blank key to the car. They then use this key to start the car and drive it away and no one is any the wiser till the owner goes to use the car and finds it gone. The alarm never goes off.

The question therefore has to be raised. Where are they getting the blank bmw keys from? The obd key programming kit is available online for around 300 quid.

I am also led to believe that they can gain access by breaking the window and reaching in and plugging the code kit into the obd without tripping the alarm as there is a black spot in the cars interior security sensor system apparently according to a bmw technician.

Ignoring the issue and claiming that the cars all conform to EU safety and security requirements DOES not address the problem. There is a distinct security flaw in bmw's system. There is no code required by the cars obd system to allow a person to recode a new key to the car and apparently you can break a window reach in and plug the obd device into the car without tripping the alarm system and code a new key to the car.

If BMW wishes to bury their head in the sand over this issue and lose lots and lots of present and future customers it is your choice. However I suspect this is going to go much the same way as the BMW cracking alloy wheel issue highlighted on BBC watchdog only it's going to be a much bigger PR problem as no one is going to want to buy a car which can be easily stolen due to a gaping flaw in its security system.

Thank you for your response however.

Sincerely

jason s4

2,734 posts

55 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
Max_Torque said:
Listen chaps, it's easy! Just remove one of the CAN bus wires from your J1962 OBD socket. The wires push backwards out of the plastic connector by pushing down a little locking tab. Then just tape said wire back onto the loom with a bit of electrical insulating tape.


Said thief is not going to be spending time with his head upsidedown in your footwells trying to find out why his tool can get coms with your car for any length of time. If your dealler needs to communicate with the car, they can just spend a min putting the contact back into place:



Remove either pin 6 (CAN low) or 14 (CAN high)
type

The most sensible post out of this whole situation.

Top marks, sir.

SuperHangOn

2,448 posts

38 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
Thye aren't exactly going to admit their current range has a design flaw. If anything happens if will be a hushed recall.

I wouldn't be surprised if half the cars on the market could be stolen in a similar way. If the BMW's are worth big bucks in some far flung corner, the bds will work out a way to nick them somehow.
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frosted

3,549 posts

62 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
TallbutBuxomly said:
I dont have a bmw but do love bmw's and have many a time considered replacing my audi or getting a bm to run alongside.

So i sent the head of bmw uk an email...


Hi

Firstly my apologies for emailing you directly Mr Abbott however I feel an email to customer services will be either lost in the ether or ignored.

There is a growing PR issue for BMW at the moment with some of your latest cars being stolen using cloned BMW keys. I realise BMW may be aware of this however it is starting to spread across internet forums and is according to certain posts becoming a problem for BMW with various now ex owners stating that they will not be buying another BMW.
In the UK it is going to mean that certain BMW's that may not be in a very high insurance group will start attracting very high and unfavourable insurance quotes putting people off buying them as much as the possibility of theft.

Pistonheads is one of the biggest if not the biggest online motoring forum and in fact BMW have hosted many Pistonheads Sunday Services. Please note this thread from the forum...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

And this one please take special note of last post from the individual who's car was stolen...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

and this one from a bmw specific forum..
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66...

There are others I am sure however I haven't the time to find them all and you haven't the time to read them all either I expect.

As you can see people are talking and this is going to become a bigger and bigger problem for bmw from a PR perspective especially if picked up by watchdog uk. The internet spreads thing like wildfire. People are unhappy as BMW are seen to be non reactive and non fussed about the issue.

I would suggest getting BMW's PR dept onto this and have them get the message out to the press. Possibly along the lines of " BMW are aware of a new trend in vehicle thefts and are investigating the methods used with a view to rectifying any potential security shortfalls as quickly as possible."

BMW's unlike other makes are bought by people passionate about the marque and as such they talk to each other and in this modern tech age bad news spreads very fast. It takes years to build a reputation it takes nowhere near as long to destroy it.

Thanks


The response...


Dear Mr X

Thank you for your email dated April 17, 2012 addressed to Mr Tim Abbott, Managing Director of BMW UK which has been forwarded to me for a response. I am sorry that you have had cause to contact under such circumstances and that this issue has caused you concern. I would however like to thank you for taking the time to contact us regarding this matter,

I wish to assure you that all BMW products sold within the UK Market comply with all EU safety and security requirements. In the UK specifically we ensure that the vehicles are tested against Thatcham requirements. However there are likely to be instances where a determined criminal can establish methods to gain entry into a BMW or any other manufacturers vehicle, regrettably this is outside of our control. I am sure you will appreciate that BMW cannot be held responsible for any incidents of this nature. However, BMW and its partners continue to work closely with the Police to monitor all methods of vehicle theft to ensure our products always remain in the hands of the rightful owner.

Once again, I am sorry you have had cause to contact us under such circumstances and I trust that the information provided is of use.

Yours sincerely

BMW UK

Or to put in simple terms bmw really couldnt give a flying fk about the problem or the bad pr it is generating.....

My response....

Mr Bell.

Sorry to say this is not the response I was hoping for but the response I was expecting. The simple fact is criminals have found a gaping flaw in the security system of certain bmw's between 07 and 2011 and present where they can steal the cars with ease without even breaking the cars windows.

They simply user a jammer to block the car from locking then plug a key coder into the obd port and code a blank key to the car. They then use this key to start the car and drive it away and no one is any the wiser till the owner goes to use the car and finds it gone. The alarm never goes off.

The question therefore has to be raised. Where are they getting the blank bmw keys from? The obd key programming kit is available online for around 300 quid.

I am also led to believe that they can gain access by breaking the window and reaching in and plugging the code kit into the obd without tripping the alarm as there is a black spot in the cars interior security sensor system apparently according to a bmw technician.

Ignoring the issue and claiming that the cars all conform to EU safety and security requirements DOES not address the problem. There is a distinct security flaw in bmw's system. There is no code required by the cars obd system to allow a person to recode a new key to the car and apparently you can break a window reach in and plug the obd device into the car without tripping the alarm system and code a new key to the car.

If BMW wishes to bury their head in the sand over this issue and lose lots and lots of present and future customers it is your choice. However I suspect this is going to go much the same way as the BMW cracking alloy wheel issue highlighted on BBC watchdog only it's going to be a much bigger PR problem as no one is going to want to buy a car which can be easily stolen due to a gaping flaw in its security system.

Thank you for your response however.

Sincerely
What did you expect them to say ?



TallbutBuxomly

12,254 posts

101 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
A response along the lines of we are aware of the issues raised and are looking into whether correct and they need rectifying rather than their rather dismissive "there is no problem with our cars security system it meets eu regs"

V8A*ndy

2,151 posts

76 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
I have heard of someone changing their mind on a new BMW and are going Audi instead.

So it has started. BMW WAKE UP! You are going to have a PR disaster with this. Sure they don't want to highlight the problem but the rumours are now out there and there needs to be a proper and full response.

As i'm disabled I can't physically fit a dislok (well I probably could but it would take some going). Whole reason I bought a BMW was I didn't have to faf about with a key and a steering lock.

Time to look elsewhere. I don't want to wake up with an empty driveway. These OBD readers/programmers will be in every chav joyriders pocket in the very near future.

NelsonR32

1,026 posts

56 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
Sent them an email via the website as thinking about a E82 or E90 in the near future to replace my E46 so this will affect my purchase at some point. I won't hold my breath for a different response though.

martynr

463 posts

59 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
I would say it is more likely that it is not a flaw in a software is at fault. And more likely a dealer where all these cars were serviced. It seems odd that Midlands are more affected than any other area. It could be that somebody in the process of vehicle delivery has made a spare key...

Why would someone post a connector where you could remove a wire is beyond me... That footballer is as thick as a brick.

TallbutBuxomly

12,254 posts

101 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
martynr said:
I would say it is more likely that it is not a flaw in a software is at fault. And more likely a dealer where all these cars were serviced. It seems odd that Midlands are more affected than any other area. It could be that somebody in the process of vehicle delivery has made a spare key...

Why would someone post a connector where you could remove a wire is beyond me... That footballer is as thick as a brick.
Not true east London has had recent spate of thefts. The issue is that someone is dishing out blank BMW keys and on top of that there is no code on the obd port to prevent just anyone recoding a new key.

Zed Ed

778 posts

68 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
BMW will do anything to try and avoid a scenario where it acts, whether with admission of negligence/liability or not, in respect of vehicle security and theft.

martynr

463 posts

59 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
TallbutBuxomly said:
Not true east London has had recent spate of thefts. The issue is that someone is dishing out blank BMW keys and on top of that there is no code on the obd port to prevent just anyone recoding a new key.
Are you saying that any key will open any bmw?

jason s4

2,734 posts

55 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
martynr said:
Why would someone post a connector where you could remove a wire is beyond me... That footballer is as thick as a brick.
Yes of course, as your input has probably helped seriously concerned owners more.

I say hats off to the man, as those who do wish to try and save their BMW from being taken in this way can, without too much trouble.

TallbutBuxomly

12,254 posts

101 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
martynr said:
Are you saying that any key will open any bmw?
Honestly unsure how the key works. Not sure if you can recode an existing key or whether you need a blank. If you can recode an existing key then that is yet another major flaw.

V8A*ndy

2,151 posts

76 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
martynr said:
TallbutBuxomly said:
Not true east London has had recent spate of thefts. The issue is that someone is dishing out blank BMW keys and on top of that there is no code on the obd port to prevent just anyone recoding a new key.
Are you saying that any key will open any bmw?
Shirely any BMW key can be reprogrammed as well?

leef44

300 posts

38 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
jason s4 said:
Max_Torque said:
Listen chaps, it's easy! Just remove one of the CAN bus wires from your J1962 OBD socket. The wires push backwards out of the plastic connector by pushing down a little locking tab. Then just tape said wire back onto the loom with a bit of electrical insulating tape.


Said thief is not going to be spending time with his head upsidedown in your footwells trying to find out why his tool can get coms with your car for any length of time. If your dealler needs to communicate with the car, they can just spend a min putting the contact back into place:



Remove either pin 6 (CAN low) or 14 (CAN high)
type

The most sensible post out of this whole situation.

Top marks, sir.
Surely if you a lay finger on that and they find out e.g. next service or if you have a fault, then they will be able to provide evidence that you have tampered with it and then invalidate any warranty for making your car more secure rolleyes

martynr

463 posts

59 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
TallbutBuxomly said:
Honestly unsure how the key works. Not sure if you can recode an existing key or whether you need a blank. If you can recode an existing key then that is yet another major flaw.
Then stop posting st if you have no idea.

martynr

463 posts

59 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
V8A*ndy said:
Shirely any BMW key can be reprogrammed as well?
Go and do it then...

Frik

12,490 posts

128 months

[news] 
Sunday 22nd April 2012 quote quote all
S8QUATTRO said:
Worrying, i've just bought a 320d m sport. Not a high performance model/mega expensive model. Is it just m3/m5 335 and such models being stolen?

Now the BMW is parked on the drive first, with an old school steering lock, followed by a £600 Fiesta blocking it in, then a Ford Focus blocking that in.

There's a near identical petrol model about 6 houses away thats left on the road.
Are you sure you aren't being just a little bit over-cautious?

Lots of panic and indignation on this thread but little fact or rationality.
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