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Hoonabator

Original Poster:

478 posts

112 months

[news] 
Thursday 3rd May 2012 quote quote all



So does this sign hold any legal standing?

If so what would the penalty be?

This sign is on several posts along a footpath alongside three playing fields. No other signs or information. Fields can be approached from several places without passing or seeing one of these signs.

So you get caught with a dog off its lead, what legally can they do?

Edited by Hoonabator on Thursday 3rd May 20:20

Fort Jefferson

7,621 posts

108 months

[news] 
Thursday 3rd May 2012 quote quote all
Hoonabator said:
So you get caught with a dog off it's lead, what legally can they do?
The council will fine you, or the farmer will shoot the dog.

Breadvan72

19,727 posts

49 months

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Thursday 3rd May 2012 quote quote all
The Apostrophe Police will be pretty severe on you too.

14-7

5,928 posts

77 months

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Thursday 3rd May 2012 quote quote all
Depends what the byelaws state.

Ray Luxury-Yacht

8,139 posts

102 months

[news] 
Thursday 3rd May 2012 quote quote all
Of course it's not a 'legal' sign.

If 'someone' caught you with a dog off a lead (although I can't imagine who exactly would be stalking around fields all day with the authority to approach people and bk them) all that can be done is maybe to ask you nicely to observe the request.

But disregarding the pure legality of the sign - gotta ask why it was put there in the first place? Maybe in response to unleashed dogs worrying / distressing livestock in the past I would guess.

As our countryside is fairly free for us ALL to enjoy fairly unhindered, there are many people from walks of life with different interests who like to do so.

Including off the top of my head:

Farmers who rely on it for their livelihood
Livestock
Serious walkers / ramblers
Casual walkers / dog walkers
Joggers / runners
Horse riders
Cyclists
And even off road motorcyclists and 4x4 drivers in some cases...

So as all those users probably don't necessarily mix, we all have to show a bit of responsibility and respect to the others.


When the Foot and Mouth thing struck, all the local countryside footpaths and bridleways were closed off - which upset me greatly as a runner - basically all my favourite training routes were off limits. Annoying, yes but I understood the reasons why and respected the closures.


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Hoonabator

Original Poster:

478 posts

112 months

[news] 
Thursday 3rd May 2012 quote quote all
Nothing to do with farmland fella. (reply to "shot dog" remark)

So you can walk onto this undefined area without seeing a sign and the council can legally still fine you? Even though there nothing that defines the area covered by the signs or that a fine will be inncured if the sign is ignored.


(It's corrected.... Sorry)

Edited by Hoonabator on Thursday 3rd May 20:22


Edited by Hoonabator on Thursday 3rd May 20:28

MJG280

565 posts

145 months

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Thursday 3rd May 2012 quote quote all
14-7 said:
Depends what the byelaws state.
and whether it is a public open space

simoid

12,898 posts

44 months

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Thursday 3rd May 2012 quote quote all
Isn't the law 'dogs must be kept on a lead in public unless absolutely under control' or words to that effect?

Red Devil

6,153 posts

94 months

[news] 
Thursday 3rd May 2012 quote quote all
simoid said:
Isn't the law 'dogs must be kept on a lead in public unless absolutely under control' or words to that effect?
No. Another urban myth. There is no general legislation.
http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/Web/corporate/pages...
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/1052

It is up to local authorities to make Dog Control Orders under the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005
Most antecedent Byelaws have been withdrawn and been substituted by Orders under the above Act.

Gaspode

3,828 posts

82 months

[news] 
Thursday 3rd May 2012 quote quote all
The Protection of Livestock Act 1971 gives farmers the right to shoot dogs who are loose in the same field as their livestock. We had a woman walking her dog off the lead amongst our sheep some years ago (a public footpath crosses the field). Needless to say, the bloody thing started chasing our sheep all over the place, and a few of them had nasty injuries. A neighbour saw it and called the cops before they called us.

The police turned up very promptly - in fact so promptly he must have been passing. The woman had managed to get her dog under control by then, protesting 'He's never done it before' I was shouting at her, giving her a right blocking, and Mrs Gaspode was trying to get the injured ewes into the shed so she could treat them.

The cop just walked up to the woman, took the dog from her, brought it over to me and said "Do you want to shoot it now, or shall we let the vet do it?" No messing, no listening to the woman's side of the story, nothing.

I said I was happy for the vet to do it painlessly, no point in the dog suffering, and it was duly put down within the hour.

So no, maybe the council couldn't do anything legally like fining you, but if your dog came within eyeshot of a farmer with gun, you'd probably have one less pet to feed...

Vipers

19,333 posts

114 months

[news] 
Thursday 3rd May 2012 quote quote all
Talking of legal signs, am I right in thinking if a road belongs to the hospital rather than the council, if I choose to ignore a "No entry except bus's or ambulances" I can ignore it and drive down it", and they can do sod all about it?



smile

ShampooEfficient

3,225 posts

97 months

[news] 
Thursday 3rd May 2012 quote quote all
If you were to apply proper road sign thinking, the picture by itself would say "walking of dogs prohibited"...

Nigel Worc's

6,965 posts

74 months

[news] 
Thursday 3rd May 2012 quote quote all
ShampooEfficient said:
If you were to apply proper road sign thinking, the picture by itself would say "walking of dogs prohibited"...
I thought the picture was saying NO dogs on leads

Frixturbo

152 posts

35 months

[news] 
Thursday 3rd May 2012 quote quote all
Gaspode said:
The Protection of Livestock Act 1971 gives farmers the right to shoot dogs who are loose in the same field as their livestock. We had a woman walking her dog off the lead amongst our sheep some years ago (a public footpath crosses the field). Needless to say, the bloody thing started chasing our sheep all over the place, and a few of them had nasty injuries. A neighbour saw it and called the cops before they called us.

The police turned up very promptly - in fact so promptly he must have been passing. The woman had managed to get her dog under control by then, protesting 'He's never done it before' I was shouting at her, giving her a right blocking, and Mrs Gaspode was trying to get the injured ewes into the shed so she could treat them.

The cop just walked up to the woman, took the dog from her, brought it over to me and said "Do you want to shoot it now, or shall we let the vet do it?" No messing, no listening to the woman's side of the story, nothing.

I said I was happy for the vet to do it painlessly, no point in the dog suffering, and it was duly put down within the hour.

So no, maybe the council couldn't do anything legally like fining you, but if your dog came within eyeshot of a farmer with gun, you'd probably have one less pet to feed...
Bit harsh...

oldsoak

5,618 posts

88 months

[news] 
Thursday 3rd May 2012 quote quote all
Frixturbo said:
Bit harsh...
Too right it's harsh...There was I thinking the dog had to actually be off lead and engaged in worrying livestock to become target of the month.

Nigel Worc's

6,965 posts

74 months

[news] 
Thursday 3rd May 2012 quote quote all
oldsoak said:
Frixturbo said:
Bit harsh...
Too right it's harsh...There was I thinking the dog had to actually be off lead and engaged in worrying livestock to become target of the month.
I thought bullste when I read that too, I've never been aware of any police power to instruct the death of a dog that is under control, no matter what it has done, either by a farmer or vet, I thought only a court of law could do that.

If it is still engaged in the attack, I've heard, (but never known tested), a power that a landowner/farmer has to shoot an animal .

A dog is a protected and notifiable animal, can pc plod really order its destruction ?

Red Devil

6,153 posts

94 months

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Thursday 3rd May 2012 quote quote all
oldsoak said:
Frixturbo said:
Bit harsh...
Too right it's harsh...There was I thinking the dog had to actually be off lead and engaged in worrying livestock to become target of the month.
Not it's not. According to Gaspode it was off lead. So what's your point?

Anybody brought up in the countryside knows perfectly well the potential consequences of having a dog off lead in a field where there is livestock. The problem is incomers from urban places. They don't have the first clue about a rural way of life.

simoid

12,898 posts

44 months

[news] 
Friday 4th May 2012 quote quote all
I believe there is confusion as to whether you can shoot a dog to protect livestock, or whether you can shoot it because it attacked the livestock.

Nigel Worc's

6,965 posts

74 months

[news] 
Friday 4th May 2012 quote quote all
Red Devil said:
Not it's not. According to Gaspode it was off lead. So what's your point?

Anybody brought up in the countryside knows perfectly well the potential consequences of having a dog off lead in a field where there is livestock. The problem is incomers from urban places. They don't have the first clue about a rural way of life.
I think I'd be more worried about rednecks with shotguns !

I don't think, but wait to be corrected, that you can shoot it because of what it's done, I think that is up to a court, I think you can only shoot it whilst it is attacking.

Even if it is offlead, as long as it is under control, which if the lady had it back for the copper to take it, it would have been under control.


Have the owner taken to court for the damage, maybe apply for the dog to be destroyed is that is your wish, but a copper and a farmer ...... judge, jury and executioner ?

simoid

12,898 posts

44 months

[news] 
Friday 4th May 2012 quote quote all
Us urban types don't understand wink
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