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Otispunkmeyer
2,793 posts
24 months
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StevieBee said: Several years ago, I had a tour round the Jordan factory. One of the things that fascinated me was a bit of kit called 'Stereo Lithographic'. This took a 3D CAD drawing and using lasers fired onto a liquid polymer, created a physical, 3D version of what was created on the computer (think of hitting print but instead of getting a printout on a bit of paper, you get the actual thing you'd just designed).
This meant that a new part could be designed, rendered and fitted to a wind tunnel model to see if actually worked before putting it into full production.
The issue was that it took a good 10 hours or so render some of the more complex parts. The guy doing the tour mentioned that each bit of kit costs £0.5m and Jordan had three of them. Ferrari had 25! Stereo Lithography Rapid Prototyping machine These are amazing bits of kit. There are numerous ways you can do this RP stuff, even ones that will produce metal parts. I dont think its going to be too long now before such 3D printers will be available to have in the home. I've already seen some HP machines, they're about the size of a decent microwave. Proper ones are expensive though and so are the consumables that go into them!
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Otispunkmeyer
2,793 posts
24 months
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Munter said: Otispunkmeyer said: The problem with just doing CFD is, its really no good unless you have some actual field tests or wind tunnel tests to validate what you are doing. I think it was Virgin/Marussia who proposed that they would be 100% CFD. To a lot of raised eyebrows. And then after a while decided tunnel time is required. Having your own wind tunnel in F1 is surely one of the holy grails. As an asset its probably almost invaluable. I imagine Macca and Ferrari have their own. The other big teams probably have easy access.... I believe Sauber also have their own wind tunnel. They arent a big team, but look how well they do.
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blueg33
10,726 posts
93 months
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Here is a racing car the OP built earlier to prove his point.  Here is a Marussia  I have no doubt that the Op has done just as good a job 
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Fantuzzi
1,428 posts
15 months
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StevieBee said: Several years ago, I had a tour round the Jordan factory. One of the things that fascinated me was a bit of kit called 'Stereo Lithographic'. This took a 3D CAD drawing and using lasers fired onto a liquid polymer, created a physical, 3D version of what was created on the computer (think of hitting print but instead of getting a printout on a bit of paper, you get the actual thing you'd just designed).
This meant that a new part could be designed, rendered and fitted to a wind tunnel model to see if actually worked before putting it into full production.
The issue was that it took a good 10 hours or so render some of the more complex parts. The guy doing the tour mentioned that each bit of kit costs £0.5m and Jordan had three of them. Ferrari had 25! That is a rather good example. The OP seems to he forgotten that every team are advancing and improving [i]at the same time[i/], while the backmarkers may be making huge leaps and bounds in progress-so are every other team. Therefore they will aways be playing catch up.
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Fantuzzi
1,428 posts
15 months
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blueg33 said: Here is a racing car the OP built earlier to prove his point. Here is a Marussia I have no doubt that the Op has done just as good a job 
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cptsideways
9,868 posts
121 months
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Otispunkmeyer said: Stereo Lithography Rapid Prototyping machine
These are amazing bits of kit. There are numerous ways you can do this RP stuff, even ones that will produce metal parts. I dont think its going to be too long now before such 3D printers will be available to have in the home. I've already seen some HP machines, they're about the size of a decent microwave.
Proper ones are expensive though and so are the consumables that go into them! Less than a grand delivered, diy jobbie, well regarded too. I've considered buying one http://www.makerbot.com/
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CBR JGWRR
5,078 posts
18 months
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Schools have 3d printers nowadays. Mine had two.
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DrTre
12,428 posts
101 months
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cptsideways said: I might get one of these then use it to print another one..sell it for a grand...print another...print another...print another...
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blueg33
10,726 posts
93 months
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My neighbour's son is a motorsport engineer. He worked for Force Indisa for a while. All he did was make one part of the front wing. Day in, day out many minor changes. That costs, they cost about £10k a time.
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nice audi driver
53 posts
23 months
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Slow? Yes they are slower than the fastest teams but my god an HRT is still rapid in the grand scheme of things.
To put it into context: 100m final of the Olympics. Usain bolt sets a time of 9.6 seconds. Someone who runs it in 10 seconds is still bloody quick, and that's a similar percentage difference to that seen in F1.
It's all about the iteration of the aerodynamic package. RBR, mclaren etc have several solutions in progress that they test as a complete package. It's hideously expensive. the smaller teams can't test different solutions in parallel, and if the original package isn't strong enough to make big gains, they haven't got the resources to start from fresh.
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toppstuff
Original Poster
8,335 posts
116 months
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blueg33 said: Here is a racing car the OP built earlier to prove his point. Here is a Marussia Yep, I built that. It's awesome is'nt it? Check out the Gulf Racing Colours. I'm surprised you did'nt pick up on the paint job. My mate Nick Wirth helped me design it. It's already quicker than the current HRT. Bernie says so. We are currently negotiating the chance to be 7th in the championship in the 2016 season.
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Fantuzzi
1,428 posts
15 months
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toppstuff said: It's already quicker than the current HRT. Bernie says so. We are currently negotiating the chance to be 7th in the championship in the 2016 season.
Whats with this whole 'F1 is pro wrestling' stuff?
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NHK244V
1,631 posts
41 months
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DrTre said: I might get one of these then use it to print another one..sell it for a grand...print another...print another...print another...  My old school something similar to this concept, it was called "woodwork class" No really we used to make "bucks" for downhill racers and one of the science teachers made a wind tunnel to test them, we never won 
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robmlufc
2,697 posts
55 months
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I actually think its quite impressive that the new teams have managed to get two cars on the grid for the last couple of years, the amount of work and effort that goes into producing two F1 cars is truly immense.
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toppstuff
Original Poster
8,335 posts
116 months
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Fantuzzi said: Whats with this whole 'F1 is pro wrestling' stuff? It's the product of an evening spent with an F1 deal-maker and the head of PR for a large corporation and F1 sponsor, in the Zebra square Monaco a couple of years ago. Of course F1 is nothing like pro- wrestling, Nothing at all. Only one of them involves fireproof underwear for a start.
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Fantuzzi
1,428 posts
15 months
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toppstuff said: It's the product of an evening spent with an F1 deal-maker and the head of PR for a large corporation and F1 sponsor, in the Zebra square Monaco a couple of years ago. Elaborate please. Thanks.
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Adam205
546 posts
51 months
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Very few parts on the cars are fresh designs, infact I would say less than 5% year on year (unless there's an engine manufacturer or major regulation change), because there simply isn't time. Designing a racing car (let alone an F1 car) from scratch is a major undertaking. The newer teams will be playing catch up for a quite a few years before they gain the people, data and industry connections required to cut it with the top teams.
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IforB
4,949 posts
98 months
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Fantuzzi said: Elaborate please.
Thanks. It's a little thing called humour. It seems to have passed you by...
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egomeister
4,054 posts
132 months
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cptsideways said: Otispunkmeyer said: Stereo Lithography Rapid Prototyping machine
These are amazing bits of kit. There are numerous ways you can do this RP stuff, even ones that will produce metal parts. I dont think its going to be too long now before such 3D printers will be available to have in the home. I've already seen some HP machines, they're about the size of a decent microwave.
Proper ones are expensive though and so are the consumables that go into them! Less than a grand delivered, diy jobbie, well regarded too. I've considered buying one http://www.makerbot.com/ They are impressive, but you won't see an F1 team with a room full of them... the good stuff still costs well into 6 figures.
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N88
1,085 posts
48 months
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StevieBee said: Several years ago, I had a tour round the Jordan factory. One of the things that fascinated me was a bit of kit called 'Stereo Lithographic'. This took a 3D CAD drawing and using lasers fired onto a liquid polymer, created a physical, 3D version of what was created on the computer (think of hitting print but instead of getting a printout on a bit of paper, you get the actual thing you'd just designed).
This meant that a new part could be designed, rendered and fitted to a wind tunnel model to see if actually worked before putting it into full production.
The issue was that it took a good 10 hours or so render some of the more complex parts. The guy doing the tour mentioned that each bit of kit costs £0.5m and Jordan had three of them. Ferrari had 25! We had one of those in my tech class at school 
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