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Mr fox

Original Poster:

297 posts

37 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
Hi Chaps,

Well my trading journey started 2 years ago after giving my business away to my business partner, as I found we could not work together. I asked to buy him out, or he buy me out, but since he wanted us to still work together I just walked away from a highly profitable business. Sometimes self-worth is more important than money.

I then started spread-betting trading from home, but did'nt have a clue what I was doing to the point where I'd be taking big risks(20%/trade), no stop-loss in place, and leaving positions open for weeks without looking at the position for days, which looking back could have wiped me out in a day.

I then decided to learn how to trade properly, so packed my bags, moved to london, and searches on the internet revealed alot of companies purporting to teach the holygrail of trading. I tried them all, and found out to my detrement that the only people making money in teaching trading is the teaching companies. With one company(K2A) I paid over £20,000, and found that what I learned there I could have learnt more from a basic book, and then some. Then with another company I paid over £8,000, and again I was taken in by the bandstand fanfare etc, and again didnt learn much more, as I was just feeling it was'nt for me, with over £40,000 spent and time I'd pack my bags and head back home relising the city streets arent paved with gold. I was talking to a friend about my move back home when he told me about this chap who trades from home, and sometimes teaches people too. The first question I asked my friend was "I bet he charges an arm, and a leg", and I wasnt wrong.
First of all when I rang this guy he told me he wasnt a teacher, and then he would'nt return my calls to which I thought "screw him. Why should I give my money to someone who cant even be bothered to return my calls". I then contacted my friend to let him know what had happened, and after a call from him, this chap decided to take me on. I tranfered £5,000 into his account, and was given an adress to go to. I was expecting to go to some training facilities , or even a conference room in a hotel at worst, but the address was residential, and again the alarm bells started ringing, and desevedly so.
I was greeted at the door by a stocky asian chap dripping in designer clothes, and expensive watch, again the alarm bells were going off ten to the dozen. Then we sat in his living room, and he asked me what I wanted from trading when suddenly I was attacked from behind by what I can only describe as a Cheetah. Fortunately for me it wasnt a Cheetah, as I learned, but a Savannah cat which looks wild, but isnt(I'm more of a dog person). Back to the conversation I told him what I wanted from trading, and I knew I was just spouting things from the other seminars that I had been to, and told him how I wanted to be super succesful, never have a losing trade, and make lots of money.
Some thing's he agreed with, and others he thought were at best impossible. We chatted some more, and after he basically disappointed me in breaking every illusion I had about trading, he then offered me my money back if I wished, and we'll shake hands and walk away. I decided to go forth with the course(thinking he probably wont, but i've made my bed etc).
over the next few days he basically made me thow away most of what I had learned, and all the indicators I had which made it impossible to read my chart. I was taught not how to read anything, but how to read a chart, and learn to love the little losses, and appreciate my winning trades. I watched this chap make over £26,000 in just over 3hrs.
Most importantly I was taught "the reasons behind why a trade is taken". As each day ended he gave me homework to do(back-testing, learning certain candle formations etc), which he expected to be done by the next day, or dont come back.
Ater a week I was done, and to be honest not only did I learn to how to trade properly, but my illusion's on this chap were totally wrong aswell. What a thoroughly genuine, and honest man he is.

The most unbelievable thing about this journey is how successfull my trading has became, and recently I was inspired by the horse betting thread that I've decided to relay my story to you chaps, and if its ok with you guys I would like to post up the trades that i am going to take.

P.S. I know there are a few active traders, and legal eagles that read these threads, so if by me posting up "my" trades is in anyway illegal, please let me know, and i wont post them.
Also these are my own trades and trades can go wrong, so I dont advise anyone to take them.

Regards,
Mr Fox.



Mattt

15,669 posts

104 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
Bit of a strange tale!!

mx stu

708 posts

109 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
As someone who does the odd bit of trading here and there (but doesn't have the time to do enough research to make the big bucks) I'd be interested on seeing how you get on. Are you simply going to list your trades or talk about why you have chosen certain shares?

I think as long as you make it clear you are not giving advice and for people to do their own research I don't think you'd be doing anything illegal.

It's what the Naked Trader does anyway: http://www.nakedtrader.co.uk/trades.htm

Mr fox

Original Poster:

297 posts

37 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
Mattt said:
Bit of a strange tale!!
It most certainly was, but I thought I'd share it in anyways, and hopefully let other's know that sometimes persistance in any field you take does pay off with alot of hard work.

Mr fox

Original Poster:

297 posts

37 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
mx stu said:
As someone who does the odd bit of trading here and there (but doesn't have the time to do enough research to make the big bucks) I'd be interested on seeing how you get on. Are you simply going to list your trades or talk about why you have chosen certain shares?

I think as long as you make it clear you are not giving advice and for people to do their own research I don't think you'd be doing anything illegal.

It's what the Naked Trader does anyway: http://www.nakedtrader.co.uk/trades.htm
Thank you for clearing that up. All I will be doing is posting up trades I am about to take before I take them.
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dalenorth

280 posts

53 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
Hmmm! This will be an interesting thread to follow!

louiebaby

5,608 posts

77 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
Bookmarked.

NorthernBoy

6,213 posts

143 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
I'll be interested to see how this goes.

However, as an opening question, if I may, why do you think that you are going to make money from trading, not lose it?

Markets are reasonably efficient, which means that there is not much money waiting around to be picked up. It's close to certain that there is no "secret" waiting to be discovered. No magic code, or "system", that will turn a profit.

In other business endeavours, there are customers willing to pay you profit for what you offer them, be that beans from Tesco, or just paying you to mow their lawn. In trading, you are very likely to be the customer, paying professionals a spread to deal with them.

I'm not saying that it can't be done, I'm asking why you think that you can find a way to extract money from what is, on average, a losing proposition.

Mr fox

Original Poster:

297 posts

37 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
NorthernBoy said:
I'll be interested to see how this goes.

However, as an opening question, if I may, why do you think that you are going to make money from trading, not lose it?

Markets are reasonably efficient, which means that there is not much money waiting around to be picked up. It's close to certain that there is no "secret" waiting to be discovered. No magic code, or "system", that will turn a profit.

In other business endeavours, there are customers willing to pay you profit for what you offer them, be that beans from Tesco, or just paying you to mow their lawn. In trading, you are very likely to be the customer, paying professionals a spread to deal with them.

I'm not saying that it can't be done, I'm asking why you think that you can find a way to extract money from what is, on average, a losing proposition.
There is no certainty in trading, and one can lose money as easily as one makes it, but the difference is probability. If you can stack the odds in your favour there is MORE probability it will come to fruition, yet even when "rules" are followed things can go wrong.

I totally agree that all the way along I am the customer to the trading company I use, and now relise the markets are a "zero sum game", as for every winner there are hundreds of losers.

The reason why I think it can be done is that Ive had to sit there "back-testing" this strategy for over 12 months(I know most people would'nt think thats long enough, but when its been done on a bar to bar basis on a 30 min chart it is quite thorough yet exhausting).

Sometime's in life it's better to take a risk(calculated), than just sit there procrastinating.

Hoofy

56,154 posts

168 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
louiebaby said:
Bookmarked.
Is your bookmark link broken? wink

GTIR

24,538 posts

152 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
Wax on wax off.

Hoofy

56,154 posts

168 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
Wait. Your only trading results are from back-testing?

Watching someone trade successfully is one thing but replicating his actions going forward is something else completely.

Good luck, though. (Sincerely!)

Mr fox

Original Poster:

297 posts

37 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
I am going to be just trading Forex, and the pairs I will be using are
EUR/GBP/CAD/NZD/AUD/ against USD,CHF($/chf) and EUR against GBP, and JPY.




Mr fox

Original Poster:

297 posts

37 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
[quote=Hoofy]Wait. Your only trading results are from back-testing?

Watching someone trade successfully is one thing but replicating his actions going forward is something else completely.

Good luck, though. (Sincerely!)[/quote

Thank You.

None of my trading is from back-testing, as that was for me to do to see how probable the results are, although I did have to factor in most cases where my exit would be or where is a technical place to put my stop-loss etc.

I totally agree with you that, just because you watch someone trade successfully, does not mean that you too become successfull, but I have been given a certain set of rules to follow, and hopefully will succeed.

pokethepope

2,407 posts

74 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
What indicators/rules will you be using out of interest?

Hoofy

56,154 posts

168 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
Mr fox said:
None of my trading is from back-testing, as that was for me to do to see how probable the results are, although I did have to factor in most cases where my exit would be or where is a technical place to put my stop-loss etc.

I totally agree with you that, just because you watch someone trade successfully, does not mean that you too become successfull, but I have been given a certain set of rules to follow, and hopefully will succeed.
The problem with back-testing is the tendency to filter out or miss candle formations that were forming and subsequently failed. You'll see what I mean once you are trading live. I would highly advise going in very small eg 0.01 lots on Alpari.

NorthernBoy

6,213 posts

143 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
Mr fox said:
None of my trading is from back-testing, as that was for me to do to see how probable the results are, although I did have to factor in most cases where my exit would be or where is a technical place to put my stop-loss etc.

I totally agree with you that, just because you watch someone trade successfully, does not mean that you too become successfull, but I have been given a certain set of rules to follow, and hopefully will succeed.
You've picked the most efficient market there is, so you are close to certain to have a negative drift.

A "system" only works if future movements can be predicted by past prices. In forex, that does not seem to be the case.

Have you actually analyzed your results, to make sure that your returns are differentials from noise? Do you understand enough to know that there are infinitely many losing strategies which are likely to make money in the short term, but which have a negative expectation value?

You seem short on facts at present, which makes your plans seem like the underpants gnomes. If you accept that it's a zero sum game, then why do you think that it makes sense to do?

Mr fox

Original Poster:

297 posts

37 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
NorthernBoy said:
Mr fox said:
None of my trading is from back-testing, as that was for me to do to see how probable the results are, although I did have to factor in most cases where my exit would be or where is a technical place to put my stop-loss etc.

I totally agree with you that, just because you watch someone trade successfully, does not mean that you too become successfull, but I have been given a certain set of rules to follow, and hopefully will succeed.
You've picked the most efficient market there is, so you are close to certain to have a negative drift.

A "system" only works if future movements can be predicted by past prices. In forex, that does not seem to be the case.

Have you actually analyzed your results, to make sure that your returns are differentials from noise? Do you understand enough to know that there are infinitely many losing strategies which are likely to make money in the short term, but which have a negative expectation value?

You seem short on facts at present, which makes your plans seem like the underpants gnomes. If you accept that it's a zero sum game, then why do you think that it makes sense to do?
Yes ofcourse I'm short on facts, and more importantly short on knowledge, as I believe there is always something more to learn.

Well I could fall flat on my face, and this is a risk I'm prepared to take.
I'm sure your a proffesional who does this for a living, and are very successfull at it, but for me it is a "trial by fire".

Would you not agree that it's a zero sum game in the respect that what ever you win on a trade has not come from anywhere else, but a trader whose lost money. I could be very wrong, and dont mind being educated by experts like yourself, but for the moment I am closed to listen to any advise, and just concentrate my energies to what I've been taught, and apply those.

Hoofy

56,154 posts

168 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
Certainly, you need to do it but be very careful about throwing a lot of money at it. You've already lost a ridiculous amount unnecessarily, sadly.

z4chris99

7,413 posts

65 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
your mental, spending so so much on lessons!

interesting to see how much you lose
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