Baby P - applause or tossed to lions?
Discussion
The social workers (note, not their boss Sharon Shoesmith) at the centre of the Baby P tragedy have had their dismissals confirmed by the court.
However, as is frequently the case with public sector workers, the notion of accountability seems to be alien to them.
An appeal cometh!
More here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-182062...
However, as is frequently the case with public sector workers, the notion of accountability seems to be alien to them.
An appeal cometh!
BBC website said:
The pair admitted failing to ensure Peter was visited regularly enough, not keeping adequate records and losing contact with him for a time.
Hilton Dawson, chief executive of the British Association of Social Workers, said: "This is a case that should strike fear into the heart of every social worker.
"Social workers should be supported and applauded for the job they do, not be personally exposed and thrown to the lions when mistakes are inevitably made."
"Mistakes?" You'd think they'd run out of Tippex, not buried a tortured, murdered toddlerHilton Dawson, chief executive of the British Association of Social Workers, said: "This is a case that should strike fear into the heart of every social worker.
"Social workers should be supported and applauded for the job they do, not be personally exposed and thrown to the lions when mistakes are inevitably made."
More here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-182062...
Don't know why any sane person would want to make a career as a social worker. Completely an utterly thankless piss poor paid job and when it goes wrong your hung drawn and quartered as if you were a reviled banker. From my limited knowledge these workers have many scores of cases on going constantly, change the system or privatise it. Hang on, the private sector are just as bad with care homes aren't they.
Don't get me wrong, I agree it was a terrible tragedy.
Don't get me wrong, I agree it was a terrible tragedy.
I'd not be so quick to jump to the defence of Social Workers - I've had the misfortune to be involved with Social Services before (trying to get any sort of help with my Dad's care during his last years) - Anti-Social Disservices would have been a more apt name.
At best they were clueless and incompetent, at worst downright obstructive - and this wasn't just one local department, it was 3 different regions across about 3 years. They made a very unpleasant situation a lot worse...
At best they were clueless and incompetent, at worst downright obstructive - and this wasn't just one local department, it was 3 different regions across about 3 years. They made a very unpleasant situation a lot worse...
I would guess the job of a social worker is difficult. The fact is if you think a child is being absued its probably very hard ot take the child off the parents - indeed you would probably be slagged off for interfering. I would also guess taking a child out of a home is very compex, expensive and resource intensive. I woudl also guess social workers have lots of complex cases on the go at the same tiem - which is what leads to situations such as this.
If you want a proper job doing of it then you would prob have to put in a lot more staff to ensure each perosn get a decent level of care.
If you want a proper job doing of it then you would prob have to put in a lot more staff to ensure each perosn get a decent level of care.
It's not a job I'd want. You're dealing with people who for the main are in a heightened state emotionally, under stress and who are aware that you can split their family up. Some, maybe most, will be lying to you at least partially or by omission and the consequences should you make the wrong decision could literally mean life or death. Even if you do make the right decision chances are you'll have upset someone deeply who may never come to terms with your decision.
At least the pay's good though isn't it? Oh, no it isn't.
At least the pay's good though isn't it? Oh, no it isn't.
Couldn't pay me enough to do that job. Spending your working life dealing with scummy a
holes, ending up with a caseload several times larger than you could reasonably be expected to handle, taking st from all sides virtually 24/7 and then when you inevitably screw up your management will palm all blame onto your shoulders.
I'm not saying they're all perfect, but it isn't difficult to see why things go wrong.
holes, ending up with a caseload several times larger than you could reasonably be expected to handle, taking st from all sides virtually 24/7 and then when you inevitably screw up your management will palm all blame onto your shoulders.I'm not saying they're all perfect, but it isn't difficult to see why things go wrong.
Symbolica said:
Couldn't pay me enough to do that job. Spending your working life dealing with scummy aholes, ending up with a caseload several times larger than you could reasonably be expected to handle, taking st from all sides virtually 24/7 and then when you inevitably screw up your management will palm all blame onto your shoulders.
I'm not saying they're all perfect, but it isn't difficult to see why things go wrong.
^^^This.holes, ending up with a caseload several times larger than you could reasonably be expected to handle, taking st from all sides virtually 24/7 and then when you inevitably screw up your management will palm all blame onto your shoulders.I'm not saying they're all perfect, but it isn't difficult to see why things go wrong.
There are probably about 3 million kids in this country that should be removed from the home. To try and weedle out the extremely vulnerable from the averagly vulnerable, almost impossible.
Social workers are either interfering busy bodies or the didn't interfere when they should have done. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.
andymadmak said:
"Mistakes?" You'd think they'd run out of Tippex, not buried a tortured, murdered toddler
More here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-182062...
You do realise that they didn't kill baby P don't you?More here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-182062...
People die in hospital every day yet we don't see the media going after nurses.
98elise said:
You do realise that they didn't kill baby P don't you?
People die in hospital every day yet we don't see the media going after nurses.
It was their job to protect children such as baby Peter and if you read of the occasions when his injuries were noted and he was removed from his .mother's 'care' only to be returned it is obvious that grave mistakes were made. He died after having his back broken, his ribs broken, his teeth knocked out and some of his fingernails pulled off. All that slipped under the radar? Every time this story is brought up I see the image of that boy and wonder why they had to do that to him. It saddens me that the mechanisms in place failed so badly to protect him and he died battered and bruised aged only 17 months old.People die in hospital every day yet we don't see the media going after nurses.
grumbledoak said:
Who'd be a social worker? It was Shoesmith herself who prevented removal of the poor little guy, due to cost.
I thought the removal was blocked by the Haringay legal department, not Sharon Shoesmith.If you look into the timeline of the case, it's surprising the police and doctors involved didn't get equally vilified.
Fatboy said:
I'd not be so quick to jump to the defence of Social Workers - I've had the misfortune to be involved with Social Services before (trying to get any sort of help with my Dad's care during his last years) - Anti-Social Disservices would have been a more apt name.
At best they were clueless and incompetent, at worst downright obstructive - and this wasn't just one local department, it was 3 different regions across about 3 years. They made a very unpleasant situation a lot worse...
Well, that depends what you want. We were involved in the care of my wife's Godfather whose distant relatives wanted to bung him in a home so they could sell his house. They actually turned up one day while he was in hospital to At best they were clueless and incompetent, at worst downright obstructive - and this wasn't just one local department, it was 3 different regions across about 3 years. They made a very unpleasant situation a lot worse...
So the family will have thought social services obstructive. We thought they were great.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
All true...but next week they'll be a story about how some kiddy had a couple of genuine accidents within a few weeks of each other and was removed from the home by social workers, and you'll be moaning about how they are a bunch of nosey busibodies and what damage have they done to that poor kiddy who was taken away from his loving parents.It's the ultimate no win job. No praise for the right decisions, and vilification for the wrong ones.
My now ex (split up around 18 months ago when our son was nearly 1) was diagnosed with pretty sever post natal depression the health visitor seemed to have first spotted it and was confirmed by a doctor. This was shortly after the split.
She was listed in a 'Red Book' of some kind and so was my son. She went into a mental health clinic for a short while (7-10 days) and was on some pretty heavy medication. She had previously made 2 'attempts' at her life. I don't think these were genuine attempts more a cry for help. Both of these happened when she was meant to be caring for our son. Luckily she moved back in with her mum after the split so she was helping her through and caught her 'attempts' early.
After she had spent her time in the clinic she was much improved and had an ongoing visit to a mental health specialist. What has this got to do with social services you are thinking?
Over the 6 months after we split she had attempts at her life, was diagnosed with PND, put in that red folder/book/list thing and not once had her or I or even her mother had any contact with any form of social services. Now 18 months on she had a phone call (about 3 days ago) to ask about her progress that should have been ongoing up until now. It seems a new social worker had been put on to deal with this Red Book malarky and was checking up.
The information she received was that for the first 3 months after she left the clinic she should have bee visited 3 times a week and the child's care and progress would be logged as would her general health. This would drop to once a week there after until the child is around 2 (which he is now well passed, so I suppose this is why she was checking).
I don't know much about the Baby P case, but luckily my ex wasn't so bad as to cause harm to our child, but it seems it could have easily happened without the Social being aware. In my case I see my son 3 days a week so would have noticed myself, but you can see how these things happen.
The Services have a difficult job, but to just forget about a young woman who made attempts at her life in the presence of her child is pretty disgusting.
...sorry for the long post. I feel it needed the back story.
She was listed in a 'Red Book' of some kind and so was my son. She went into a mental health clinic for a short while (7-10 days) and was on some pretty heavy medication. She had previously made 2 'attempts' at her life. I don't think these were genuine attempts more a cry for help. Both of these happened when she was meant to be caring for our son. Luckily she moved back in with her mum after the split so she was helping her through and caught her 'attempts' early.
After she had spent her time in the clinic she was much improved and had an ongoing visit to a mental health specialist. What has this got to do with social services you are thinking?
Over the 6 months after we split she had attempts at her life, was diagnosed with PND, put in that red folder/book/list thing and not once had her or I or even her mother had any contact with any form of social services. Now 18 months on she had a phone call (about 3 days ago) to ask about her progress that should have been ongoing up until now. It seems a new social worker had been put on to deal with this Red Book malarky and was checking up.
The information she received was that for the first 3 months after she left the clinic she should have bee visited 3 times a week and the child's care and progress would be logged as would her general health. This would drop to once a week there after until the child is around 2 (which he is now well passed, so I suppose this is why she was checking).
I don't know much about the Baby P case, but luckily my ex wasn't so bad as to cause harm to our child, but it seems it could have easily happened without the Social being aware. In my case I see my son 3 days a week so would have noticed myself, but you can see how these things happen.
The Services have a difficult job, but to just forget about a young woman who made attempts at her life in the presence of her child is pretty disgusting.
...sorry for the long post. I feel it needed the back story.
They do seem to be spectacularly incompetent and utterly unaccountable - all the newspaper articles of them snatching children from good homes on made-up baloney "mental health" issues, yet they come over all supine when someone is suffering real abuse.
The head of pastoral care at my high school was very experienced and patient. she said the only time she has ever lost her temper on the phone and shouted at someone was whilst dealing with social services cases....
The head of pastoral care at my high school was very experienced and patient. she said the only time she has ever lost her temper on the phone and shouted at someone was whilst dealing with social services cases....
I work as IT Support for Children's Services - while I can't comment on the handling of this case I will say that 99.99% of the UK public have absolutely no idea what is involved in being a Children's Social Worker - the sheer amount of paperwork, keeping up with statutory visits, rules & regs to be followed is mind blowing.
I will also add that I guarantee that within a 5 mile radius of wherever you live you would be staggered by the amount of involvement required by Children's Services. I've been involved in this role for 3 years so far and what I have read I could never have imagined - the public are very much shielded from what happens "next door".
I've been asked on a number of occasions would I consider becoming a social worker, but there is no amount of money in the world that you could pay me to do this job. As usual, the majority of work in unheralded, it's just monumental cock-ups like Baby P. that are highlighted.
I will also add that I guarantee that within a 5 mile radius of wherever you live you would be staggered by the amount of involvement required by Children's Services. I've been involved in this role for 3 years so far and what I have read I could never have imagined - the public are very much shielded from what happens "next door".
I've been asked on a number of occasions would I consider becoming a social worker, but there is no amount of money in the world that you could pay me to do this job. As usual, the majority of work in unheralded, it's just monumental cock-ups like Baby P. that are highlighted.
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