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911p
1,847 posts
49 months
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DebsBell said: Maybe I'm worrying unnecessarily about the engine rev thing but I'm thinking of my pocket and all the cash that may be leaving it soon ... In a nutshell the car records if you make a bad downshift which forces the engine past its rev-limiter; for example accidentally going from 5th to 2nd gear at speed, rather than from 5th to 4th gear.
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hartech
1,459 posts
86 months
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Sorry but picked up on this a bit late and don't have time to study it all - but it would be unusual to have absolutely no compression unless a valve is bent or burnt or a seat is loose.
This could indeed be caused by changing down too soon and over revving the engine.
However if it is a scored piston and cylinder - revs do not cause that as there is little power at high revs and the thrust on the piston face is very low. Scoring is caused more by low speed high piston face loads - caused by lots of low revs high torque driving.
It is a shame that they need to strip it when you don't yet know the outcome or implications for cost.
At least if a good independent had it you would know it would cost a lot less whatever the problem was.
You seem to be stuck in an unenviable position in which you need to let them inspect it first and then are stuck with whatever they decide to do next and the associated costs.
Good luck.
Baz
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thegoose
6,594 posts
79 months
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DebsBell said: Can you explain that paragraph in 'Windows for Dummies' fashion please ... I'm a bit lost!![/footnote] I think you've understood it fine, the point is you need confirmation from the OPC that there is no data in the car's logs (in the DME) that causes them any concern. I did says it's unlikely anything will be amiss given your background & expertise but the OPC will be dealing with the black & white facts & figures. It's basically something you need to be sure is eliminated as a possible cause. Hitting the rev limiter is a Range 1, which is fine and I'd be surprised if there weren't any if the car's been driven enthusiastically. If they do have any concern over the data, you need the actual figures & share them with us for further feedback - there have been cases of over-revs being stored that were clearly software glitches (I.e. What the data indicated could not ever have actually happened), but the OPC were too hard-of-thinking to realise. The PH massive however, used a little logic and the owner could then go back & explain it to them.
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DebsBell
Original Poster
35 posts
12 months
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Guys, thanks for that.
I don't think I've ever gone from 5th to 2nd 'acidentally' and caused the engine to over rev in any car I've owned over the last 11 years!! Before that ... probably but certainly not with the Cayman.
I work in the London area and traffic is pants with queues and roundabouts and traffic lights etc. There's been a lot of 'slow moving' due to the congestion. I treat my car with 'kid gloves' as it's my baby!! No harsh acceleration and always within the rev ranges so I now feel a lot more confident that when the DME printout is done, they wont find anything untoward.
Will keep you posted on progress
Debs
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sneaky schnell
1,143 posts
74 months
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Maybe you should hint that you are thinking of buying another new Porsche. You bought one once so it wouldn't be unreasonable for you to buy another.
Of course, you could change you mind once the Cayman is fixed.
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BertBert
7,048 posts
80 months
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DaveWn said: so as I understand it the current situation for the op is : The engine is being stripped at the OPC s expense(or does the op only not have to pay "up front"?. This needs clarifying , in writing / e mail)
No I think that's not the case. The OPC is expecting the OP to stump up. Bert
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nsa
878 posts
97 months
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Honda does (did) make a sports car Debs. NSX! I stick to Honda bikes as well. Love 'em.
Best of luck with the engine claim. If Porsche got £2,500 from you for a bonnet respray, I bet they're confident you'll pay up now.
Please push for full repair or replacement engine at no cost. Writing personally to the head of the company in the UK helps. They wave a hand and the problem disappears. It wouldn't surprise me if Porsche even keeps a close eye on these threads.
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Durzel
1,507 posts
37 months
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£2,500 for a bonnet respray? What the f....
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khushy
3,378 posts
88 months
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hartech said: . . . caused by lots of low revs high torque driving . . . please expand????
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Rugbyman
1,553 posts
72 months
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Durzel said: £2,500 for a bonnet respray? What the f.... A rogue post not for this thread I believe .....ignore it
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Actus Reus
1,446 posts
24 months
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No, I don't think so - the OP says she spent £2.5k at the OPC having damage to the bonnet resprayed.
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Rugbyman
1,553 posts
72 months
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Actus Reus said: No, I don't think so - the OP says she spent £2.5k at the OPC having damage to the bonnet resprayed. Ah yes I see.......I missed that ....many thanks
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monthefish
15,709 posts
100 months
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My advice:
Speak to a Solicitor who specialises in consumer law NOW A bit of advice and a couple of letters will likely cost <£500 and this may very well be all it takes to get a satisfactory resolution. Remember, you are dealing with a potential bill of £20,000 here, and the harsh fact of the matter is that the car broke down out of warranty, and you refused the chance to extend the warranty (for whatever reason). Either have the solicitor communicate with the dealer/Porsche GB directly, or if you feel that would be too heavy-handed at this stage (I don’t personally – solicitors can write nice letters too – it just shows you aren’t messing about), then at a minimum they advise you on the content of the letter (i.e. they write it for you).
Get the DME readings taken (I would suggest) by an Independent Porsche specialist. If I were you I’d want to be armed with the facts before Porsche are, so that they can be understood and explained. ‘Data’ is one thing, ‘information’ is quite another as 'the goose' has mentioned above. (or is the car marooned at the Porsche Delearship?). The ideal situation is that you can get your solicitor to have Porsche agree to foot all bills unless it is proven that you are solely responsible for the failure, and you would only want this 'agreement' to go ahead if you know that the failure is nothing to do with you. If significant over-rev is found and likely to be the cause (which is probably unlikely from what you have said) you would be far better going forward without Posrche and in the hands of Hartech (for considerably less than £20,000) BEFORE Porsche have started this stripdown of £6k (which would go a long way towards the repair with A.N.Other)
p.s. Boxster/Cayman/911 with an engine repair (by Hartech/Autofarm) can actually be a selling point for those in the know, rather than a negative (which I think is how many people in the outside world view an engine rebuild)
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Gibbo205
1,406 posts
76 months
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khushy said: please expand???? An engine which is thrashed and driven regular towards the limiter and kept on the boil is less likely to have issues. Hence why track driven cars tend to have very little issues with engines is serviced properly, unless of course they miss a downshift or something. Engines seem to take damage more especially the 3.4 / 3.8 engines when they are not driven as intended, low revs. But one could argue that driving them around the torque band in high gears is also as they were intended, as the 911 is afterall the everyday sports car. But what Baz is saying a car warmed up properly, serviced properly, ran on good fuel, cooled well and driven hard using the gears tend to not have these issues. It seems more prone on cars which sit in a lot of traffic, see a lot of stop start go action and are not driven hard in the upper part of the rev ranges.
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nickfrog
2,137 posts
86 months
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nsa said: If Porsche got £2,500 from you for a bonnet respray, I bet they're confident you'll pay up now. That's the big problem with OPCs, they do try it on.
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Davey S2
8,651 posts
123 months
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The other option is to get Porsche to buy the car back off you for a suitable amount.
I agree that you are in a far stronger position than most though having bought the car new and always had it serviced by them.
Although Ibought mine used from an OPC its last 2 services were with an indy and the car had a lot more miles on it.
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REALIST123
1,543 posts
22 months
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Gibbo205 said: khushy said: please expand???? An engine which is thrashed and driven regular towards the limiter and kept on the boil is less likely to have issues. Hence why track driven cars tend to have very little issues with engines is serviced properly, unless of course they miss a downshift or something. Engines seem to take damage more especially the 3.4 / 3.8 engines when they are not driven as intended, low revs. But one could argue that driving them around the torque band in high gears is also as they were intended, as the 911 is afterall the everyday sports car. But what Baz is saying a car warmed up properly, serviced properly, ran on good fuel, cooled well and driven hard using the gears tend to not have these issues. It seems more prone on cars which sit in a lot of traffic, see a lot of stop start go action and are not driven hard in the upper part of the rev ranges. For the life of me I can't see how thrashing, driving regularly towards the rev limiter, 'keeping on the boil' (whatever that means) or driving hard in the upper rev ranges can actually be helpful to an engine. Please explain that for me.
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mrdemon
3,012 posts
134 months
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less torque, rather than puting your foot down at 2k revs in 4th which most non car people seem to do.
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MadMark911
1,350 posts
18 months
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They sound better too! 
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LaurasOtherHalf
6,293 posts
65 months
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 at some of the replies on this thread. to the OP, i feel your pain, & it's certainly a difficult time for you (no-one is prepared for a multi x £1k bill) but i think you should take a step back & let things take their natural course for the immediate future. you seem to have had good dialogue with your OP & customer services thus far. they seem to be doing their up most to reslove the problem for you albeit without waving a magic wand & declaring they'll fix it for free for you. take their point of view on the rebuild for a second, they simply don't know what caused the problem just yet, for all they know you could have caused the damage yourself inadvertently & so they really do need to investigate. yes it is probably likely that one of the usual faults that inflicts this engine is probably to blame but it's still within their right to see if thats the case. with your customer history i would expect them to simply offer an extremely high or 100% contribution to the repair should it be one of the known "design faults". if not, well it's hardly their fault if some unknown event caused the destruction of your cars engine. i really can't see how they could be expected to play it out any other way on a car that has no manufacturer or dealer provided aftermarket warranty? try not to panic about it too much, fair enough get everything they intend or say they intend to do in writing but give them a chance to work out why your car has had this happen to it.  oh & stay off the wine tonight!
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