I've fallen in love all over again....
Discussion
With the 575M Maranello. Just picked up the latest edition of EVO magazine and read an article on the new 575 HGTC. What a corker...absolute classic Ferrari lines, stupendous V12 and all the latest up-to date technology (CC brakes, updated F1 paddleshift software). I think I need another Ferrari fix, i've not been in one for over 12 months.
Also in the same edition 575M with Fiorano and manual against the Vanquish with dynamic handling pack, across Europe and 360CS v Ford GT v Lambo Gallardo. Just brilliant. If you haven't got a copy I would certainly recommend it.
Now...what did I do with my wallet? Hi....Is that Stratstone's?
Also in the same edition 575M with Fiorano and manual against the Vanquish with dynamic handling pack, across Europe and 360CS v Ford GT v Lambo Gallardo. Just brilliant. If you haven't got a copy I would certainly recommend it.
Now...what did I do with my wallet? Hi....Is that Stratstone's?
The HGTC does look nice but is nearly an additional £15K on top of a £180k car. If you want it for a track use save yourself £150K and buy a Radical which will blow any Ferrari into the weeds.
That said I do like the 550 / 575. Would never buy one new though. The depreciation of Ferrari V12's is a killer.
That said I do like the 550 / 575. Would never buy one new though. The depreciation of Ferrari V12's is a killer.
Personally i'm not sure that a Stradale version would suit the 575 well. A 360CS absolutely...."and what colour would Sir require"...."Red with stripe pleeeeease". IMO the 575 is a Luxury/Sports GT and should stay that way. I'm sure it will be a very desireable piece of kit though, just my preference would be the HGTC. I think the premium asked for the extra hardware/software is a veritable bargain. Is it worth the extra cost over the Murci?? IMO yes.
I think the 575M HGTC looks awseome!
I think 17K for all the extras is a bargin - espeacially when you consider that "a friend" of mine has just replaced his Carbon disks on his 360CS - at a cost of £16K.
I believe the (LHD) car has either been sold - or is about too be...
Eek!
I understand that this is about par for the Porsche PCCB's.
I think 17K for all the extras is a bargin - espeacially when you consider that "a friend" of mine has just replaced his Carbon disks on his 360CS - at a cost of £16K.
I believe the (LHD) car has either been sold - or is about too be...
Eek!
I understand that this is about par for the Porsche PCCB's.
Is it just me or are these cars getting simply too ridiculously expensive?
Or is it just the sheer exclusivity?
Like the new Murcielago Roadster - what was it £230-odd grand or so?
Is it not conceivable that the established order - Ferrari, Lambo (and I suppose Porsche with the Carrera GT) are reckoning that if 'upstarts' like Horatio & Co can muscle in with price tags in excess of £300k, then surely they might let price escalation creep forth with their higher pedigree stars?
But other than perma-tanned snob value, are these cars in any way actually 'worth it' by any objective criteria?
As much as I love it's pointless profligacy, the McMerc seems a chronic example of precisely this tendancy.
For me, Kev's Stradale - hugely expensive, of course - is just about the realistic apex for any road car: it pushes all the right buttons, emphatically but is not that excessive cost-wise, given the pedigree, compared to any number of 'circa-£100kish' options.
Probably a mildly weak argument but I dunno - just seems that once you're past £150k - it's sort of hard to justify on any rational, relative basis.
Comrade DeR.
Or is it just the sheer exclusivity?
Like the new Murcielago Roadster - what was it £230-odd grand or so?
Is it not conceivable that the established order - Ferrari, Lambo (and I suppose Porsche with the Carrera GT) are reckoning that if 'upstarts' like Horatio & Co can muscle in with price tags in excess of £300k, then surely they might let price escalation creep forth with their higher pedigree stars?
But other than perma-tanned snob value, are these cars in any way actually 'worth it' by any objective criteria?
As much as I love it's pointless profligacy, the McMerc seems a chronic example of precisely this tendancy.
For me, Kev's Stradale - hugely expensive, of course - is just about the realistic apex for any road car: it pushes all the right buttons, emphatically but is not that excessive cost-wise, given the pedigree, compared to any number of 'circa-£100kish' options.
Probably a mildly weak argument but I dunno - just seems that once you're past £150k - it's sort of hard to justify on any rational, relative basis.
Comrade DeR.
Derestrictor said:I think the point is that you don't need to justify the cost if it represents an insignificant proportion of your disposable income (or a significant ownership ambition
Probably a mildly weak argument but I dunno - just seems that once you're past £150k - it's sort of hard to justify on any rational, relative basis.
). The issue then becomes which cars to own to create a balanced fleet...
Past 150k? Let's face it. the majority of the 5-6bn people on the planet would chuckle at even that notion.
Consider the machinery these days that will at least keep pace with these monsters, and there is little or no sensible rationale for spunking more than 50k on a car. Probably even somewhat less than that.
Horatio's finest is so much more than the Ferraris or Lambos in terms of detail design it's not true. And this from a diehard Ferrair fan who is trying to find ways of adding a Murci to the fold!
I'm not a fan of the overall design - the rear specifically - but was fortunate enough to be shown round the factory by a young lady called Katja. If I had 300k, I'd be visiting her again!
The McMerc is, IMO, a joke. If Hyundai had done th same (and let's face it the technology is there for any manufacturer to do it) they'd have been laughed out of town. Why Merc get away with it I don't know.
Put simply, some people will buy anything in the quest for exclusivity. And good taste appears to be going down the pan in the fat of wallet these days. At least the 575, coupe Murci and a few others have that certain something. The McMerc looks like a squashed SL with riced up doors.
Consider the machinery these days that will at least keep pace with these monsters, and there is little or no sensible rationale for spunking more than 50k on a car. Probably even somewhat less than that.
Horatio's finest is so much more than the Ferraris or Lambos in terms of detail design it's not true. And this from a diehard Ferrair fan who is trying to find ways of adding a Murci to the fold!
I'm not a fan of the overall design - the rear specifically - but was fortunate enough to be shown round the factory by a young lady called Katja. If I had 300k, I'd be visiting her again!
The McMerc is, IMO, a joke. If Hyundai had done th same (and let's face it the technology is there for any manufacturer to do it) they'd have been laughed out of town. Why Merc get away with it I don't know.
Put simply, some people will buy anything in the quest for exclusivity. And good taste appears to be going down the pan in the fat of wallet these days. At least the 575, coupe Murci and a few others have that certain something. The McMerc looks like a squashed SL with riced up doors.
Guydw said:
I'm with Anjum.
The 550 with Fiorano pack was awesome, now they've sorted out the initial problems with the 575 and added some stuff it has to be a fabulous proposition. Just wish I had the money - my solution? Sit back for a few years and watch them depreciate....
Too true....Objectively when in the "new car" market for this sort of motor would £20K (difference between £150-£170K) actually relate to all that much difference? When you consider what the 575M brings, with its classic Ferrari front engined/V12 layout over the 360CS which is a raw track biased V8. Don't get me wrong, the 360CS and 575M are very much on my wish list. Personally my limit would probably be about the list price of the 575M HGTC. Anything over and above this would probably be money wasted because I have money to burn, not because I wanted more performance than that given by a V12 Ferrari.
The £230K list price of the Murci roadster is in my opinion obscene for what is a lesser car (its got no roof). Whats that....£60K or so over the price of a Murci Coupe. Not justified IMHO. Looks fabulous though.
The McMerc isn't my bag baby....and I just don't think special enough to justify the price tag. Gordon Murray probably agrees.
I think the Murci roadster is simply stunning. The work on the engine cover is awesome - and as for the carbon fibre meccano set - it's just art!
I hated the Diablo roadster - it was hideous - but the murci roadster is just the canine dandly-bits.
It's interesting what has been said about cars being too expensive - but remember that the number of £100K cars sold has increased by 1500% in 10 years - implying there IS more disposable cash around.
In my view - for what it's worth - a part of the supercar mystique, in addition to what'll it do, mister - is HOW MUCH!!!!
For sure - the sensible way is to wait for the cars to depreciate - but naughty cars are as much about emotions as they are about finances....
Ho hum!
Anjum
I hated the Diablo roadster - it was hideous - but the murci roadster is just the canine dandly-bits.
It's interesting what has been said about cars being too expensive - but remember that the number of £100K cars sold has increased by 1500% in 10 years - implying there IS more disposable cash around.
In my view - for what it's worth - a part of the supercar mystique, in addition to what'll it do, mister - is HOW MUCH!!!!
For sure - the sensible way is to wait for the cars to depreciate - but naughty cars are as much about emotions as they are about finances....
Ho hum!
Anjum
Derestrictor said:
Is it just me or are these cars getting simply too ridiculously expensive?
Or is it just the sheer exclusivity?
Like the new Murcielago Roadster - what was it £230-odd grand or so?
Is it not conceivable that the established order - Ferrari, Lambo (and I suppose Porsche with the Carrera GT) are reckoning that if 'upstarts' like Horatio & Co can muscle in with price tags in excess of £300k, then surely they might let price escalation creep forth with their higher pedigree stars?
But other than perma-tanned snob value, are these cars in any way actually 'worth it' by any objective criteria?
As much as I love it's pointless profligacy, the McMerc seems a chronic example of precisely this tendancy.
For me, Kev's Stradale - hugely expensive, of course - is just about the realistic apex for any road car: it pushes all the right buttons, emphatically but is not that excessive cost-wise, given the pedigree, compared to any number of 'circa-£100kish' options.
Probably a mildly weak argument but I dunno - just seems that once you're past £150k - it's sort of hard to justify on any rational, relative basis.
Comrade DeR.
I don't know if I agree or disagree with you here DeR mate - I think I do and I don't. Justifying a £200k purchase on a car is totally in relation to the amount of $$$$$$ someone has got.
Sounds cynical but I've seen it - it's less to do with the car being the ultimate thrill or being able to do 3 trillion mph etc but everything to do with, "I fancy two Enzos and a Rolls Royce Phantom and I earn £10M every year- so what's the big deal?"
The phrase "ridiculously expensive" really doesn't exist for a sh1tload of people these days - - manufacturers know it - as a result these hyper-cars are NOT as "objectively better" than their cheaper counterparts as their uber-prices would suggest.
Having said that, it's been a long time since I've been truly devastated by the PERFORMANCE of a car.(1st time I drove the F40 I think). Roll on 1000hp and £1M cars!
Edited to say - Murcielago roadster is apparently going to list in the UK at a more reasonable £193,000 - I ADORE it - heard that a hardtop roof "cover" is on the way.
P.S. just realised JeremyC said exactly what I said but a LOAD better.... ooops.
>> Edited by manu on Wednesday 11th August 16:58
>> Edited by manu on Wednesday 11th August 16:59
I've heard today from a reliable source that an acquaintance has just (instead of selling it as intended!!) changed his F40 setup from track biased with slicks to road legal. Much pestering methinks will be done in the not too distant....
Interesting about the rate of mega buck car sales, Anjum; I guess the figures speak for themselves!
All these bloody jammy yanks with their 20% tax rates et al!
Can you imagine? People buying £50k TVRs would be into Stardales and Gallardos, whilst connoisuers of your variety would be bathing in the fish bowled spectacularity of Zonda's more glorious septlitrism.
(And I could buy 2, maybe THREE premium ferrets!)
All these bloody jammy yanks with their 20% tax rates et al!
Can you imagine? People buying £50k TVRs would be into Stardales and Gallardos, whilst connoisuers of your variety would be bathing in the fish bowled spectacularity of Zonda's more glorious septlitrism.
(And I could buy 2, maybe THREE premium ferrets!)
Quite right Sir Manu.
What I was rather poorly attempting to convey was my incredulity at the admittedly tenuous concept of rip-off versus genuine value.
I know, I know, fairly meaningless concept in the world of supercars generally but merely a sense that silly price tags are almost status symbols beyond the viability of the car itself.
Again, I cite Kevin's Stradale - for me, the most pleasant thing ever to wear rubber and generate profuse friction burns - total absorption for £130k - a pile of cash, yes but what does the extra cash really delivery beyond tertiary level product value, namely, sheer image, flash, bling, call it what you will, for the Pink Floyd drummer contingent?
It's like the DB9 - staggering, unbridled automotive art - for what seems like sensiblish mega car money [ditto the Cinti GT - £110k for that much sheer ability (whatever one may think about the 'pollution' of the spirit of Bentley)] - making the Vanquish looks disproportionately priced.
I'm not so sure it's about infinite disposable, you know. I'm always amazed by the number of people with bleed'n' great palaces with top line £100k Mercs parked up - who never quite stretched to the Bentley level but presumably wouldn't have had a problem doing so...people who numerously now have switched to the cheaper Crewester...i.e. I think even at this rarefied level, vfm does come into it.
Having said all that, weren't the F1s sold at a loss?
I'll remove my coat from the stand...
What I was rather poorly attempting to convey was my incredulity at the admittedly tenuous concept of rip-off versus genuine value.
I know, I know, fairly meaningless concept in the world of supercars generally but merely a sense that silly price tags are almost status symbols beyond the viability of the car itself.
Again, I cite Kevin's Stradale - for me, the most pleasant thing ever to wear rubber and generate profuse friction burns - total absorption for £130k - a pile of cash, yes but what does the extra cash really delivery beyond tertiary level product value, namely, sheer image, flash, bling, call it what you will, for the Pink Floyd drummer contingent?
It's like the DB9 - staggering, unbridled automotive art - for what seems like sensiblish mega car money [ditto the Cinti GT - £110k for that much sheer ability (whatever one may think about the 'pollution' of the spirit of Bentley)] - making the Vanquish looks disproportionately priced.
I'm not so sure it's about infinite disposable, you know. I'm always amazed by the number of people with bleed'n' great palaces with top line £100k Mercs parked up - who never quite stretched to the Bentley level but presumably wouldn't have had a problem doing so...people who numerously now have switched to the cheaper Crewester...i.e. I think even at this rarefied level, vfm does come into it.
Having said all that, weren't the F1s sold at a loss?
I'll remove my coat from the stand...
There is a huge market for seriously expensive cars at the moment but this could easily dry up in the next 12 months if there was another recession. Just look at the Jag XJ220 where people were falling over themselves to buy a £450k car then tried every which way possible to get out of it.
Even Maclaren were hoping to sell about 300 F1's but could only shift less than 100 in the end.
Modern cars, even those in the CGT, Enzo, MacMerc etc are small money compared to historic / classic cars.
As for the 575 if you can have the new package put onto an existing car it could be a bit more of a bargain. Buy a nearly new one for £130k and away you go.
>> Edited by Davey S1 on Wednesday 11th August 20:50
Even Maclaren were hoping to sell about 300 F1's but could only shift less than 100 in the end.
Modern cars, even those in the CGT, Enzo, MacMerc etc are small money compared to historic / classic cars.
As for the 575 if you can have the new package put onto an existing car it could be a bit more of a bargain. Buy a nearly new one for £130k and away you go.
>> Edited by Davey S1 on Wednesday 11th August 20:50
I can't wait to see the Murci roadster in the flesh (so when's it due Anjum? Can I have a go?) lol I think it is absolutely stunning, and should I win the lottery this week I won't even think twice about putting my order in - I'd probably turn up with the cash (it's a Sarf London thing...)
The only reason I'll wait for 550's (or whatever) to depreciate is so that they are attainable - make no mistake, given the chance I would spec my own, Anjum is right it is all about emotion.
As far as price, I don't think the money that some of these cars cost is over the top, I just wish I had it !
The only reason I'll wait for 550's (or whatever) to depreciate is so that they are attainable - make no mistake, given the chance I would spec my own, Anjum is right it is all about emotion.
As far as price, I don't think the money that some of these cars cost is over the top, I just wish I had it !
Gassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff