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Don1

Original Poster:

10,892 posts

94 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
Well Ryan from Syvecs has just finished remapping the car after running in.

Let's just say that I am a VERY happy boy. (Also the traction control is amazing, and the tunnel map... heh heh heh)



Headline figures of 443bhp & 358lb/ft. We finished the run around 7400 as we didn't want to explode the engine.
Massive kudos to the companies involved with the engine - Racing Green (FFF head, lightened flywheel, Symplex chain etc, building it), ACT (Exhaust and Airbox) and Syvecs. And massive thanks from me also. I'm gobsmacked.

alex_gray255

4,647 posts

91 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
Bugger. Ok, engine mods next year biggrin

But seriously, looks good, Don!

RedSpike66

2,194 posts

98 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
Congrats Don - ready to open the pipes on the road now eh ??? biggrinbiggrinbiggrin
Enjoy - and watch out for cameras and plod !!!

As a comparison, I got 363 bhp & 306 lbs/ft on SRR last december...

Out of interest, do you know whether RG put bigger injectors in as that would seem a requirement to get above 400bhp with Power engines.... although they are 4.3/4.5 whereas you are still 4.0.

BTW, any time for a meet one evening this week ??

Englishman

1,116 posts

96 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
Must be the most powerful S6 there is. And measured on an independent RR I trust too. Now I wonder how much that extra 90 HP would cost....

alex_gray255

4,647 posts

91 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
I'm guessing it is the combination of the airbox, remap and the FFF2 which is giving that output. I don't think it is something you would get from the FFF2 alone.

At least, not from the conversations I've had with RG earlier in the year, although that was just about the standard FFF2. Not accounting for anything Don might have
had done at the same time biggrin
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RedSpike66

2,194 posts

98 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
I don;t think the airbox is reputed to give more than a few bhp extra, as its a carbon copy (pardon the pun) of the standard airbox, and also Syyvecs is a much more advanced ECU feature wise, but on a standard 4.0 Sag, doesn't give much more bhp unless you start messing around with injectors etc. and all that airflow/porting stuff at the same time.

Re-mapping with de-cat and ACT airbox has shown to give about 8/10/12 bhp extra.

RG said they expected FFF2 to give 435bhp, and VVT is expected to give 475bhp I've been told, so sounds like exhaust, syyvecs, airbox, bespoke mapping has yielded about 10bhp over the 'engineering' benefits of a re-designed and better cylinder head.

I've just plotted the graphs from Don's dyno plot onto my paper copy..... yikes ..... just checking to see which organs I can sell cloud9

Edited by RedSpike66 on Tuesday 31st July 17:25

alex_gray255

4,647 posts

91 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
That's odd as that was not what RG were telling me, but the evidence is plain.

I must have misinterpreted what they were saying whistle

Don1

Original Poster:

10,892 posts

94 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
Drinks this week could be difficult - maybe next week but work dependant? I might have been got by a scamera van on the way there as well - typical. We'll see how accurate the dash is on the speedo I guess...

I did say I would be completely transparent about cost, so everyone can make an informed decision about their cars...OK, the cost (from what I remember - I tried to blank it out!), was around the £15k mark. That includes VAT.... Obviously as I was spending a chunk with them, certain costs came down, but the exhaust was around £1k, Syvecs £2k. Add the rest in, (VAT £2.5k!), and you get to around the £15k area.

As for these numbers on top of the FFF, I think the biggest area for improvement (especially for the Sag), is the exhaust. I don't have cats, and the car makes a hell of a noise.
(30 second mark url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuqIiTKoIaY[/url]). The airbox does have the trumpets, so that will help as well over a standard one.

There is a standard Sagaris FFF that should be going through this remap shortly, so we might be able to see and understand the figures a little bit better.

alex_gray255

4,647 posts

91 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
The text from the RG site quotes 430 BHP.

"Currently this cylinder head gives a headline fiqure of 430bhp 4.0 litre TVR Speed 6 engine carried out on the Surrey Rolling Road but is currenlty ongoing development which is expected to raise these figures significantly."

So, Don's figures are inline with that.

I must have got my info screwed up when I spoke with RG. getmecoat

Don1

Original Poster:

10,892 posts

94 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
To be fair that is on a Tuscan 2 (better exhaust system than the Sag).

alex_gray255

4,647 posts

91 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
Oh, yes, that must be from their directors car which is a Tuscan isn't it?

I'm supposed to be trying it out sometime.

So, need to wait for the baseline of the other Sagaris I guess.

RedSpike66

2,194 posts

98 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
I notice RND Engineering do a lovely looking new piston that increases volume to 4.1 litres, plus the block can take boring out to 4.2 (Power 4.5SS engine with Top Hat liners)... THAT would be a lovely combination... FFF2 head, and still all that revviness with the original stroke, and 4.3 litres..... I wonder what kind of numbers that would produce.....

alex_gray255

4,647 posts

91 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
Mike + Cheque book = much experimentation = good luck! hehe

Don1

Original Poster:

10,892 posts

94 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
Alex, when you are, shout, as I'm 10-15 mins from them.

Mike, I have asked this question repeatedly. Currently my engine is around the same torque as a 4.5 (there are one or two higher), so what would you actually gain from a higher capacity?

Except of course, if the higher capacity is being held back by the breathing, and we have a huge untapped well of power to dig into. But who is going to be brave enough to uncork their chequebook to that level?

It should be noted that my numbers are before the 8k cut-off. A brief chat with the engine builder today did occur... and we kind of agreed that lightened, forged pistons and and a properly balanced unit, with stronger bolts etc should see another 5-7 bhp - not sure that is worth it TBH. Yes, it would be nice to toss around the 450 figure, but really worth it? When RG sort out the VCT, then it's a thought...

alex_gray255

4,647 posts

91 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
Will do!

For myself, I'm not really interested in too much BHP. More torque than I have currently would be nice, but I'm happy enough with 400 or so as a target and there
are various ways of getting there depending on what you want to spend.

RedSpike66

2,194 posts

98 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
My financial means do not allow me to explore such experimentation tho, and I would love too believe me frown

My understanding is that the head is the limiting factor in the original design, which is backed up by the fact that Powers & STR8Six's bigger engines make as good (if not better) torque than the FFF2 4.0 litre, but not quite as good power, as at the tops revs, the engine can't breathe enough. So the two combined, but without the longer stroke that alters the character a bit, might be a lurvely combination...

Pascal... what you up to ??? hehe

DonkeyApple

17,299 posts

55 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
alex_gray255 said:
The text from the RG site quotes 430 BHP.

"Currently this cylinder head gives a headline fiqure of 430bhp 4.0 litre TVR Speed 6 engine carried out on the Surrey Rolling Road but is currenlty ongoing development which is expected to raise these figures significantly."

So, Don's figures are inline with that.

I must have got my info screwed up when I spoke with RG. getmecoat
Firstly, bloody hell Don!!!!!!

Re the demo car they've had much more than 430 out of it but it gave a really crappy bottom end so was wound back to make it the most driveable.

This was where the need for VCT arose, to be able to wind the top end up to its maximum while maintaining driveability off the cam.

The head doesn't need bigger injectors it seems to flow much more air so creates a bigger bang out of the same fuel feed.

I'm not sure that stroking the engine would lead to further gains, this engine must rev to deliver its returns.

What is really interesting about this latest development is that it shows that if the cam timing is advanced it will deliver close to the 475bhp the head designer has claimed and a third party recently verified which is amazing. Genuinely amazing.

As for where the gains have come from, well the lightened flywheel and chains will help make the engine more free reving. I can't imagine that the buckets from the Speed12 design have any effect other than being more robust and durable. The Syvecs definitely allows for the engine to be tuned to the limit which is worth a good few percent. With mine we have a breathing problem that holds us as 411bhp but on paper it does look like it is the design of the head that brings the most to the table and all the other things just help it to do the best it can.

So far though, this must be the powerful S6 by a margin?

Don1

Original Poster:

10,892 posts

94 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
You should have seen the look on their faces when I came in with the graph. hehe

clive f

7,032 posts

119 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
well done Don, a very nice return for your 15k.hehe

Don1

Original Poster:

10,892 posts

94 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
rofl Yes one way to look at it! biggrin

(How is your stainless airbox etc going one? Looked amazing!)
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