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Marf

22,907 posts

110 months

[news] 
Wednesday 1st August 2012 quote quote all
martin84 said:
I love how he describes the 8th biggest country in terms of industrial output as one which makes things nobody wants to buy.
Like I said, insular.

martin84

5,366 posts

22 months

[news] 
Wednesday 1st August 2012 quote quote all
Marf said:
Like I said, insular.
Yes, another one of those who is unaware a World exists outside of America and that things exist which are not American.

Mermaid

12,497 posts

40 months

[news] 
Wednesday 1st August 2012 quote quote all
martin84 said:
Yes, another one of those who is unaware a World exists outside of America and that things exist which are not American.
BIG island mentality.

doogz

18,721 posts

56 months

[news] 
Wednesday 1st August 2012 quote quote all
He seems like a very articulate, well educated, intelligent man.

Yet at the same time, a complete muppet.

Seems to be an American thing.

jeff m2

961 posts

20 months

[news] 
Wednesday 1st August 2012 quote quote all
martin84 said:
Why do the Americans (particularly red states and GOP voters) have something of a mistrust of educated candidates? It's been a theme for years now that the Democrats put up a skilled debater and graduate of the Ivy League (which is often later used against them) where as the Republicans think military service is required to be a politician. They really do seem to love this idea that 'anybody can grow up to be President' which you'd think Dubya would've put an end to.

I remember the anti-Obama mongering, GOP voters essentially going 'dont vote for him! he can string a sentence together!!! dangerous!'
Martin with respect, Bush was a product of Yale!
I'm not sure where this idea of GOP voters having a mistrust of educated candidates comes from.

What many voters do prefer, Democrats and Republicans alike is an ex Governor.
Last time we had to pick from two Senators and it hasn't gone well.

A governor has had at least four years experience of running "something". States operate under a fixed budget, that is obviously something people like.
States obviously do have the ability to borrow money as do Cities and Municipalities, but they do so within certain restraints. Something most Americans would like to see happen further up the chain.

Is Romney the massier that is going to get into office and right things by shorting Spain and Greece of course not, but given the problems we have right now many consider him worthy of a chance.

But of course being Governor and the son of a Governor does not mean the man will succeed, many including myself hope he wins and does stablise things, it's all a gamble.

One of my close friends was the son of the Lt Gen of Mass, despite a Harvard education was recently delivering car radiators to repair shops. Like I said it's all a gamble, after a couple of duds we'ed luv to get a good'n.smile

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Derek Smith

16,058 posts

117 months

[news] 
Wednesday 1st August 2012 quote quote all
martin84 said:
Why do the Americans (particularly red states and GOP voters) have something of a mistrust of educated candidates? It's been a theme for years now that the Democrats put up a skilled debater and graduate of the Ivy League (which is often later used against them) where as the Republicans think military service is required to be a politician. They really do seem to love this idea that 'anybody can grow up to be President' which you'd think Dubya would've put an end to.

I remember the anti-Obama mongering, GOP voters essentially going 'dont vote for him! he can string a sentence together!!! dangerous!'
Atlee sent Keynes to the USA immediately after the war when the UK was in a much worse state financially than it is now. The father of a friend of mine was a civil servant whose job it was to produce a plan to close schools and put children to work in the fields as there was a major threat that there would not be enough to eat in this country.

Keynes was highly intellectual and all he had to do was to put the case to American politicians that this sudden dropping of financial aid to the UK straight after the war was over was crippling. Easy enough one might have thought given the degree of sympathy from our light allies. However Keynes used long words and assumed a certain intelligence amongst his listeners. Both of these things were mistakes. He had I remember reading difficulty coping with their difficulty of understanding.

It seems he was mistrusted because he was an intellectual. Britain managed to secure a loan, and on preferential terms, but it was much lower than those in the UK thought appropriate given the circumstances. Later the American president agreed. The UK made the last payment in 2005.

A number of Labour MPs pointed out to Atlee that Keynes was wrong person to send but, in what Atlee admitted later was an error on his behalf, he refused to listen.

Later histories have suggested that in affect it was a bonus to this country that we didn't get anywhere near the amount of money we are asking for. It meant that the government could not indulge in any great nationalisation projects other than those that were seen as absolute necessities. Further, businesses were not subsidised, there were no funds available, so it was a case of having to make the best of a bad situation. Rationing stayed for some items for eight or 10 years and this formed a strong basis for the swinging 60s.

Zod

23,367 posts

127 months

[news] 
Wednesday 1st August 2012 quote quote all
I'm no Romney fan and I hope Obama wins as I don't think Romney ha a clue how he would lead the US, but the hype against him is silly and unfair. He make enough gaffes all on his own, so there is no need to say he is stupid (he patently is not, given his success in business) and the "Britain is a small island" piece has been quoted selectively to paint him in a bad light. What he actually said was:

"England [sic] is just a small island. Its roads and houses are small. With few exceptions, it doesn't make things that people in the rest of the world want to buy. And if it hadn't been separated from the continent by water, it almost certainly would have been lost to Hitler's ambitions. Yet only two lifetimes ago, Britain ruled the largest and wealthiest empire in the history of humankind. Britain controlled a quarter of the earth's land and a quarter of the earth's population."

It's not the most flattering comment, but it's less bad put in the context in which he's trying to say that we succeeded to such a great extent despite the handicaps of being a small island.

jeff m2

961 posts

20 months

[news] 
Wednesday 1st August 2012 quote quote all
doogz said:
He seems like a very articulate, well educated, intelligent man.

Yet at the same time, a complete muppet.

Seems to be an American thing.
Just when we thought the English aristocracy had that market covered.
(I am English btw)

doogz

18,721 posts

56 months

[news] 
Wednesday 1st August 2012 quote quote all
jeff m2 said:
doogz said:
He seems like a very articulate, well educated, intelligent man.

Yet at the same time, a complete muppet.

Seems to be an American thing.
Just when we thought the English aristocracy had that market covered.
(I am English btw)
There's a thread running in this forum about Boris Johnson, and I suppose you could describe him in exactly the same way.

Actually he holds dual citizenship, UK and USA, doesn't he? scratchchin

martin84

5,366 posts

22 months

[news] 
Wednesday 1st August 2012 quote quote all
jeff m2 said:
Martin with respect, Bush was a product of Yale!
Do Yale admit to that? laugh

jeff m2 said:
I'm not sure where this idea of GOP voters having a mistrust of educated candidates comes from.
That may be slightly inaccurate because they'd probably take to an educated candidate on their own side, but using the example of Al Gore, the college he went to and the way he speaks suddenly becomes an important issue when running against somebody like George Bush. They do like to portray the educated Democrat as a 'snob' while portray the Republican as a sort of 'everyman' character. It was silly in the case of Gore because there so many other valid reasons to not back him.

jeff m2 said:
What many voters do prefer, Democrats and Republicans alike is an ex Governor.
Last time we had to pick from two Senators and it hasn't gone well.
I'm not the sharpest on American history but am I right in saying 2008 was the first time two sitting Senators contested the Presidential election? JFK became President after being a Senator I believe and so did somebody else in the 20s. Nixon was a Senator about 15 years before becoming President I think?

jeff m2 said:
One of my close friends was the son of the Lt Gen of Mass, despite a Harvard education was recently delivering car radiators to repair shops. Like I said it's all a gamble, after a couple of duds we'ed luv to get a good'n.smile
Nothing wrong with delivering car parts for a living, somebody has to do it. I can respect the principle of a gamble because one of my ex employers took a gamble on me once to run the places finances despite no experience of doing so and no University education.

I just couldn't get behind a Republican candidate because by British and European political standards, the GOP is an out of date party. If it existed here it'd be split up into three parties by now. The god-bothering-anti-abortionists would be in a party all of their own by 2012.

jeff m2

961 posts

20 months

[news] 
Wednesday 1st August 2012 quote quote all
martin84 said:
jeff m2 said:
Martin with respect, Bush was a product of Yale!
Do Yale admit to that? laugh
Probably not on their recruitment literature, but it's no secretsmile

and some other valid points.

One thing that seems odd to me (as a long term Brit in the US) is the amount of support for a liberal that has absolutely no love or respect for England.

The US has probably some of the best marketing tools around which they use for either selling cereal or getting their man elected.
Much of this is usually geared to target the less educated/unimformed/poor and of course those that have got use to having their information spoon fed.

The fact that Romney took the bother to visit UK as a candidate should indicate something positive from a UK standpoint.
Historically the Republicans have always been more sympathetic to UK than the Democrats.



To my knowledge all the collecting boxes for the IRA were in Democratic States.
And Democratic politicians were never shy in making their support for IRA public to secure the Irish American vote.



So what has changed in UK......did you all get Blaired.

or is it that people are now more succeptable to advertising!

Engineer1

7,183 posts

78 months

[news] 
Wednesday 1st August 2012 quote quote all
Or just concerned that the next president of the US could believe that Jesus visited America and wears magic pants, basically he will be from one of those doorstep visiting evangelist religions that most people hide from if they see them coming up the drive.

Marf

22,907 posts

110 months

[news] 
Wednesday 1st August 2012 quote quote all
[southpark]dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb, dumb d-dumb[/southpark]

ninja-lewis

1,896 posts

59 months

[news] 
Wednesday 1st August 2012 quote quote all
jeff m2 said:
One thing that seems odd to me (as a long term Brit in the US) is the amount of support for a liberal that has absolutely no love or respect for England.

The fact that Romney took the bother to visit UK as a candidate should indicate something positive from a UK standpoint.
Historically the Republicans have always been more sympathetic to UK than the Democrats.

To my knowledge all the collecting boxes for the IRA were in Democratic States.
And Democratic politicians were never shy in making their support for IRA public to secure the Irish American vote.
Are we supposed to be impressed by the fact that he "bothered" to visit? Even the bloody French do that. Probably not a good idea to criticise your hosts. Or, on your next stop, bring up the leader of a terrorist organisation responsible for murdering British troops.

From an UK point of view, there doesn't appear much difference in "sympathy" between the two parties - both had/have their fair share of IRA supporters (since you brought it up).

Colonial

9,809 posts

74 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd August 2012 quote quote all
Guybrush said:
I wonder if our 'opinions' are being manipulated by the left-leaning areas of the UK media.
Even Fox is reporting it in a negative light.

Maybe reporting that a conservative candidate isn't that good is just sometimes truthful reporting.

Despite it going against your own bias.

GavinPearson

4,996 posts

120 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd August 2012 quote quote all
Clearly Mitt Romney is not somebody who is terribly media savvy, however he is the US's best bet for President as he has a track record of running things successfully. Like a company, a state, a Winter Olympics. There really is only one issue in the US - the economy, and right now it is in deep trouble with little to show for the trillions spent in the past few years by the Federal government. I would expect Romney to find the right Treasury Secretary, find a way to cut Federal spending, balance the books, cut the deficit and generally turn things around.

At a state level, there are a number of states with Democrat governors who were in deep trouble financially, where they have been replaced with Republican governors their fortunes have improved for the better. The expectation is that this would also be the case at a Federal level.

Mitt Romney's wife is of Welsh extraction and the Romneys have visited the UK on many occasions. This serves the UK's interests far better than somebody with an anti-UK bias. So treat his visit as a positive, not a negative.

As regards Mitt's Olympic comments, most were centred on the G4s shambles and echoed the scathing comments made by many MPs. It should hardly be a surprise it was commented on, given that Mitt ran the 2002 Winter Olympics. Clearly Salt Lake City isn't as busy as London, but this is basic Project Management and whoever was managing G4s did their job poorly.

I think we also need to recognise that academic brightness isn't necessarily something that translates to a guaranteed success story for a political candidate. Numerous Labour politicians have been extremely academically gifted yet that did not prevent them running the economy into the ground every time they have taken the reigns of power.

Zad

8,716 posts

105 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd August 2012 quote quote all
My concern is not about how good he is or isn't, but that like Dubya he is the puppet of wealthy religious groups who will put religious beliefs and idealism in front of real world pragmatism.

maser_spyder

5,603 posts

51 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd August 2012 quote quote all
I'm pretty certain Mitt Romney is actually going to turn out to have been Sasha Baron Cohen all along.

stevejh

593 posts

73 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd August 2012 quote quote all
Zad said:
My concern is not about how good he is or isn't, but that like Dubya he is the puppet of wealthy religious groups who will put religious beliefs and idealism in front of real world pragmatism.
Some would say that Obama is a puppet of the Unions and George Soros. He certainly seems like a puppet of somebody.

Alfa numeric

2,414 posts

48 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd August 2012 quote quote all
From the BBC:


BBC Article said:
Economy Mitt Romney Would reduce the corporate income tax rate, cut "non-security discretionary spending" by 5% and "tear down the vast edifice of regulations the Obama Administration has imposed on the economy"

Healthcare Would repeal Barack Obama's 2010 healthcare overhaul, even though it is conceptually similar to a plan he supported in Massachusetts; would encourage individuals to purchase their own health insurance rather than rely on their employers

Immigration Would make English the official language of the US and "turn off the magnets like tuition breaks or other breaks that draw people into this country illegally"

National security "It's worth working with the insurgents in the country to encourage regime change in the country. And if all else fails, if after all the work we've done there's nothing else we can do besides take military action then of course you take military action. It is unacceptable for Iran to have a nuclear weapon"

Social issues Would defend a US law barring federal recognition of same-sex marriages; supports allowing states to ban abortion.
That seems to be quite a divisive set of policies.



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