E90 3-series - 3 liltre engine size confusion!! HELP!!

[wax lyrical]

Right - I need some help. I'm looking for a 3 litre (petrol) E90 coupe or cab but am getting confused by the number of 3 litre engine variations there are! Msport ideally.

So for a 2007 model, there's a 325i, 330i, 335i. All are 3 litres! I know the 335 is a twin turbo and is the daddy, and my preference. However, which of the other two 3 litres is better and more recent?

Can any current/ former owners let me know how they compare with the 335i?? Also, how does all of this intereact with N52 / N53 - what's the significance of this designation?

Many thanks!!

Edited by wax lyrical on Thursday 16th August 12:52

[ucb]

As they are all 3 litre engines then you are referring to the N53 engine range. Actually N53-B30Uo (325i) and N53-B30Oo(330i).
The 335i was initially a twin-turbo six (N54) but this changed to a single turbo with twin scroll turbines (N55) from around 2010. Same change to 135i also.
The later n53 has direct injection but lacked variable valve lift compared with the earlier n52.

[Fox-]

wax lyrical said:

So for a 2007 model, there's a 325i, 330i, 335i. All are 3 litres! I know the 335 is a twin turbo and is the daddy, and my preference. However, which of the other two 3 litres is better and more recent?

Can any current/ former owners let me know how they compare with the 335i?? Also, how does all of this intereact with N52 / N53 - what's the significance of this designation?

In terms of 'age and betterness' the 325i and 330i at each given point are the same basic engine with minor differences. In the pre 57 plate cars they are both N52B30 engines. In the post 57 plate cars (There is some crossover) they are both N53B30 engines. They therefore deliver the same fuel efficiency and have the same running costs, the only real difference is that the 330i is more powerful.

The 335i is actually the older of the engines. It is based on the original M54 introduced in 2000 (Though heavily reworked) whereas the N52 and then N53 engines were all-new and technically more advanced.

The 325i is therefore fundamentally pointless unless you can find one at a really great price.

Between 330i and 335i there actually isnt much in it in terms of outright performance. The 330i is 272bhp, the 335i 306bhp and there is only half a second in it to 60. Drive both cars flat out and they'll feel similar, though the 335i edges it.

The beauty of the 335i is in its flexibility. You need the 330i in the right gear to make swift progress whereas the 335i just ****'s off into the distance seemingly whatever gear you are in. It has such a flexible powerband.

I picked the 335i though truthfully only becuase it was the first good one in the spec I wanted to come up. I'd have been equally happy with a 330i. Note the N53 330i is considerably more economical than both the N52 version and the 335i. It is also less reliable than the N52 on account of its direct injection system.

[S3_Graham]

330 @ 272 bhp? That sounds high. Is that LCI?

My 130 was 261. Feels much slower than my dads 335.

[ucb]

The N53 has a peak power of 272. I assume therefore that the 1series was only available with the n52 range in the 130i.

[Fox-]

S3_Graham said:

330 @ 272 bhp? That sounds high. Is that LCI?

Nope, the 330i in the E92 was 272bhp in both N52 and N53 form.

[wax lyrical]

Thanks for the input. Very useful.

I take it that the 330i on balance would be a better buy than the 335i from the standpoint of reliability? I have heard that the 335i has some fundamental weaknesses and is a bit fragile?

My initial idea was to buy a 335i and chip it at some point - but that's just asking for trouble I think!

Fox- said:

In terms of 'age and betterness' the 325i and 330i at each given point are the same basic engine with minor differences. In the pre 57 plate cars they are both N52B30 engines. In the post 57 plate cars (There is some crossover) they are both N53B30 engines. They therefore deliver the same fuel efficiency and have the same running costs, the only real difference is that the 330i is more powerful.

The 335i is actually the older of the engines. It is based on the original M54 introduced in 2000 (Though heavily reworked) whereas the N52 and then N53 engines were all-new and technically more advanced.

The 325i is therefore fundamentally pointless unless you can find one at a really great price.

Between 330i and 335i there actually isnt much in it in terms of outright performance. The 330i is 272bhp, the 335i 306bhp and there is only half a second in it to 60. Drive both cars flat out and they'll feel similar, though the 335i edges it.

The beauty of the 335i is in its flexibility. You need the 330i in the right gear to make swift progress whereas the 335i just ****'s off into the distance seemingly whatever gear you are in. It has such a flexible powerband.

I picked the 335i though truthfully only becuase it was the first good one in the spec I wanted to come up. I'd have been equally happy with a 330i. Note the N53 330i is considerably more economical than both the N52 version and the 335i. It is also less reliable than the N52 on account of its direct injection system.

[Fox-]

Only the older N52 330i is likely to offer marked reliability improvements over a 335i or a 330i. If its between an N53 330i and a 335i then reliability is fairly irrelevent. But then the older more reliable one isnt as economical.

Buy a Comprehensive BMW warranty for 40ish quid a month and reliability is somebody elses problem.

[Derek Chevalier]

S3_Graham said:

330 @ 272 bhp? That sounds high. Is that LCI?

My 130 was 261. Feels much slower than my dads 335.

I think the claimed 272 is very optimistic

[S3_Graham]

Fox- said:

S3_Graham said:

330 @ 272 bhp? That sounds high. Is that LCI?

Nope, the 330i in the E92 was 272bhp in both N52 and N53 form.

interesting. new info stored

AUC warranty was c.£500 a year to extend on the 130.

[wax lyrical]

Fox- said:

Only the older N52 330i is likely to offer marked reliability improvements over a 335i or a 330i. If its between an N53 330i and a 335i then reliability is fairly irrelevent. But then the older more reliable one isnt as economical.

Buy a Comprehensive BMW warranty for 40ish quid a month and reliability is somebody elses problem.

I agree - a warranty would be essential. I suppose for this I would need to find a car that already has a BMW warranty in place that I could extend, or a car with full BMW service history that I could put a warranty on?

What if the car has >60k miles though - as a lot of the used market seems to have?

Thanks in advance!

[E30M3SE]

wax lyrical said:

I agree - a warranty would be essential. I suppose for this I would need to find a car that already has a BMW warranty in place that I could extend, or a car with full BMW service history that I could put a warranty on?

What if the car has >60k miles though - as a lot of the used market seems to have?

Thanks in advance!

Doesn't need to have an existing warranty on it (although there is a lapsed warranty premium if the warranty is allowed to lapse), just needs FSH. If you buy one with more than 60K miles on it then warranty cost increases and certain suspension items are no longer covered even under the comprehensive warranty.

[wax lyrical]

E30M3SE said:

Doesn't need to have an existing warranty on it (although there is a lapsed warranty premium if the warranty is allowed to lapse), just needs FSH. If you buy one with more than 60K miles on it then warranty cost increases and certain suspension items are no longer covered even under the comprehensive warranty.

But I assume this does need to be full BMW service history? Otherwise it would be too much risk for them warrantying the car.

[Riff Raff]

E30M3SE said:

wax lyrical said:

I agree - a warranty would be essential. I suppose for this I would need to find a car that already has a BMW warranty in place that I could extend, or a car with full BMW service history that I could put a warranty on?

What if the car has >60k miles though - as a lot of the used market seems to have?

Thanks in advance!

Doesn't need to have an existing warranty on it (although there is a lapsed warranty premium if the warranty is allowed to lapse), just needs FSH. If you buy one with more than 60K miles on it then warranty cost increases and certain suspension items are no longer covered even under the comprehensive warranty.

I've just renewed the warranty on mine. ISTR that you can't buy the cover if the car has done more than 100k miles, so if you are buying something leggy, that might be something to bear in mind.

[E30M3SE]

wax lyrical said:

But I assume this does need to be full BMW service history? Otherwise it would be too much risk for them warrantying the car.

Not necessarily, if a cars had a couple done outside the network it will still be warrantiable, you just need to be able to show the car was serviced to the correct spec using genuine BMW parts and recommeded oils/fluids.

Once the cars covered by the BMWIW then it has to be serviced by a dealer.

For the full lowdown give them a call on 02086669204, they're very helpfull.

[wax lyrical]

E30M3SE said:

Not necessarily, if a cars had a couple done outside the network it will still be warrantiable, you just need to be able to show the car was serviced to the correct spec using genuine BMW parts and recommeded oils/fluids.

Once the cars covered by the BMWIW then it has to be serviced by a dealer.

For the full lowdown give them a call on 02086669204, they're very helpfull.

Many thanks. Much appreciated!

[a11y_m]

Fox- said:

S3_Graham said:

330 @ 272 bhp? That sounds high. Is that LCI?

Nope, the 330i in the E92 was 272bhp in both N52 and N53 form.

Are you sure?

My understanding was:
e90 330i pre-LCI (up to around 57-plate) = 258ps N52
e90 330i LCI (post 57-plate)= 272ps N53

I've read on forums that pre-LCI e92/e93 (coupe/convertible) have higher outputs than the e90/saloon, but don't know if that's internet bullst or not.

Happy to be corrected but I currently own a 57-plate pre-LCI 330i e90 and the extra horses would be nice to know

To the OP: my budget didn't allow a 335i or LCI 330i but in some ways I'm glad. The N52 seems to suffer less problems than the N53, at the expense of being thirstier, and the 335i seems to suffer injector issues too. That's all from reading online so am unsure of accuracy/truth. Ideally I'd be driving a 335i with warranty but the 330i N52 is good enough for me.

[Derek Chevalier]

a11y_m said:

My understanding was:
e90 330i pre-LCI (up to around 57-plate) = 258ps N52
e90 330i LCI (post 57-plate)= 272ps N53

I'm not sure - on Wiki it says

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N52#N52B30

190 kW Applications:
2005-2008 E90/E92/E93 330i/330Ci/330xi sedan, coupe and convertible

which would imply ~258bhp, but who knows if this is correct??

[Fox-]

a11y_m said:

Are you sure?

My understanding was:
e90 330i pre-LCI (up to around 57-plate) = 258ps N52
e90 330i LCI (post 57-plate)= 272ps N53

I've read on forums that pre-LCI e92/e93 (coupe/convertible) have higher outputs than the e90/saloon, but don't know if that's internet bullst or not.

Happy to be corrected but I currently own a 57-plate pre-LCI 330i e90 and the extra horses would be nice to know

I specifically said E92 not E90. btw, the E90 LCI was 58 plate not 57 plate, the E90 gained the N53 before the LCI.

The E92 330i was the higher power variant from launch, though I think technically it was 268bhp or something. Certainly wasn't the 258ps unit.

[a11y_m]

Fox- said:

a11y_m said:

Are you sure?

My understanding was:
e90 330i pre-LCI (up to around 57-plate) = 258ps N52
e90 330i LCI (post 57-plate)= 272ps N53

I've read on forums that pre-LCI e92/e93 (coupe/convertible) have higher outputs than the e90/saloon, but don't know if that's internet bullst or not.

Happy to be corrected but I currently own a 57-plate pre-LCI 330i e90 and the extra horses would be nice to know

I specifically said E92 not E90. btw, the E90 LCI was 58 plate not 57 plate, the E90 gained the N53 before the LCI.

The E92 330i was the higher power variant from launch, though I think technically it was 268bhp or something. Certainly wasn't the 258ps unit.

See, I didn't want to doubt you as I know from previous BMW posts that you know your sh*t

Thanks for clarifying, I just focussed on the e90 bit in the title and missed the e92/93 references later on. Also didn't know that LCI was separate from the engine change - no wonder folk are confused about power output. So, my 57-plate 330i e90 is indeed lower-powered than the equivalent e92/93 of that age?