Being able to find negative things to think about in every situation is clinical depression. It's considered a mental illness and can be treated and controlled to varying extents but usually quite successfully. Very serious depression results in the person feeling their life has no value and having thoughts of suicide. And yet until the very end he averred that he was not mentally ill.

We'll never know if attempting to treat him for depression would have helped. But it's a a source of sadness to me that everyone so quickly and easily accepted his opinion that his life was not worth living. It's certainly an interesting commentary on the nature of depression, in any case.

Quite possibly. Many people never get diagnosed.

Not read all of the thread so I apologise if I repeat anything but...

Some months ago I met chap who has MND. He is in roughly the same position as Hawkins medically. Hawkins is an odd case and a bad example for many reasons. Not least as the average life expectancy for someone with MND is 4 years from diagnosis IIRC. Hawkins has survived for an amazing amount of time and seems to enjoy life but a lot of MND suffers dont. Their mind is 100%, they feel physical sensation the same as anyone else so imagine, there you are now, hooning about in fast cars and enjoying life and a year later you are in wheelchair, knowing you have a painful decent into a horrible death awaiting you. Now you can do what you want, in a years time you have to use an eye controlled computer to ask a wife who is now deeply depressed to do something as simple as move the angle of your head.Some people may be ok with this, Hawkins clearly is and has a rich life, but others don't. It should be the individuals choice what to do. Jetting off to Switzerland is all well and good but rather ignores two factors. 1) It ain't cheap so not everyone can afford it realistically. 2) You try and transport someone in that condition and ask them to make a long journey. Sure, it happens but somehow I don;t imagine Hawkins regularly travels coach. I assume, although I don't know, he travels on planes better equipped to deal with it and has huge support, something many dont have.

SO if one has a degenetritive condition, on order to end ones life, you must do so before you are unable. Maybe the person does not wish to do that at that stage or their feeling change. If you have something sudden like Nicklinson the option really is not there.

I would not want to be the one drafting the law to cover this and I certainly would not want to be involved as the medical team either but there are plenty of people who have the skills and could do a decent job of drafting a law and making such assessments.

I am not observant at all but my own faith disallows suicide. I don't happen to agree and more importantly, we live in a broadly liberal, secular country so if someone chooses not to end their life or assist someone else in so doing, fair enough. I defy anyone here though to spend time with people suffering in this way, and who have seriously considered the option of ending their own lives but are totally unable to, to see the devastation it causes to them and their families, to see smart, intelligent people knowing their own pain, emotional and physical, watching themselves die and not wonder how this can possibly be right. To be fair, I have always felt this way very strongly but meeting my MND suffering mate and his family and listening to what they have to say as people who are not observing, but living this, right now, every day has made me absolutely certain that this area of the law must be changed, and fast.

On a related note, I have been trying to give this chap and his family some good experiences and they are all massively into cars. Various car groups including ones well known here have been amazing and we even had an F1 team recently arrange a tour for him behind the scenes at their factory. I am working on another thing now for him and when you call up and try and track down people who are basically impossible to get hold of and get them a message explaining what you are after and why, the response is almost always very positive. Famous people and huge companies included! Rather serves to remind one there are still some fantastic people in the world.

Life isn't always precious. In fact, it has a monetary value.

We should aim for quality of death as well as quality of life, and we should not prioritise life at all costs. Some prices are too high to pay.

Having been there in the final moments of several family members, I can say that, based on my own first-hand experience, I think that it's not always sad and painful at all. In one case it was a blessed release for all involved.

These people were not asking for the right to die, these cases are not about legalising suicide. These cases are about the "right" to be killed, there is a massive difference, ethically and legally. They're asking for the immunity from prosecution to what humanity see's as the most horrific and serious crime, ending anothers life. The ramifications are too great, the argument too broad and the risks to high to start the journey down this road in my opinion.

re: mattnunn

an intersting point about 2 doctors disagreeing. particularly at present in an increasing litigious and risk averse society - the freedom of common sense and will is oft overshadowed by fear of retribution. Creativity being stifled, expression bounded.

murder by neccesity - wow, what a thought...we're not ready for that by a long way imho.

2 doctors though may disagree about ending a life, but might they agree not to sustain life and let things take their course? would that be negligent?

are we on the verge of a donor card type system? "in the even of xyz do or do not do abc...."?

Doctors make DNR (do not resuscitate) calls every day - it goes against the embodiement of the medical profession - preserve life - but sometimes death is better than life...

the mind boggles but a fantastic debate this is.