Group C prototype race cars market

Group C prototype race cars market

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triplerotorracer

Original Poster:

32 posts

141 months

Saturday 25th August 2012
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I am looking at investing in a C2 car to do a variety of races and if funds allow actually get into the group c historic races. Anyone know how to get a clear picture of the market in these cars as the prices vary enormously. Are there some to be avoided as they are just not competitive or would struggle to get the right papers?

ellis427

1,653 posts

178 months

Sunday 2nd September 2012
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a good bet would be to get yourself on to group c website email, enquire, find a number for a few of the guys who have or run c2 cars and have a good chat find out what you want and what you don't.

To many dreamers trying to sell the far lesser slow group c cars for top money.

triplerotorracer

Original Poster:

32 posts

141 months

Sunday 2nd September 2012
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Thanks for that, I have made contact with many people already in Group C racing and some restorers already with group c experience. It seems there are a few big priced entry level cars that still need expensive work which is likely to be a blank cheque. There are some already running post refurbishment for about half the price of a similar Spice and way below the C1 levels. I am also advised that the cost to run a C1 due to the more complex engines is much higher, rebuild costs are a bit eye watering. I think a clean, straight already refurbished C2 car may be best bet for my wallet and hope the gap between C2 and C1 narrows a bit as there is quite a gap now considering you are in the same races. Also, according to the guys already in group c, the car you buy may be a winner on paper but the wrong team setting it up and the nut behind the wheel make most of the difference and some lesser cars have done well. Have you run a Group C yourself?

Graham

16,368 posts

283 months

Monday 3rd September 2012
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In my experience the biggest variable both in terms of results and cost will be the team, and more cost doesnt necessarily mean better results..

If you dont have a particular car in mind, Id concentrate on finding a team that your happy to work with first. look at what they are running go to some races with them to see how they perform talk to the car owners, and also see what pro drivers they have access to.

The team will also then be able to advise on their preference on what car to run, and help you source it and help make sure you dont end up with a pup, or at lest if you do make sure you know that at the start.

There are a lot of good teams out there and an almost equal number of sharks !!! I can probably put you in touch with a couple of teams I know and have worked with, We would love to help but dont have any group C experience, mind you the car we ran at le mans classic this year was a 1932 car !! and we hadnt run one of those before either !

Best of luck sounds like a great project

G

ellis427

1,653 posts

178 months

Monday 3rd September 2012
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I've watched and kept upto date with as much group c races and series as possible, and in the c2 catagory the Spice SE90C's - http://www.groupcracing.com/pages/223 seem to be the cars on the money, with the right team, driver set up to take the challenge to the more powerful C1 cars.

A great idea would be to get yourself to a group c race event, like at the silverstone classic I (as an 18 year old) could stroll into the garage/tent of teams and have a 20 minute conversation about the cars and that, i'm sure as someone enquiring and in a position to get involved they will offer you a number and even more time. Also you will soon realise that alot of the top cars live in the same stable, with the same team running them.

I would give a silly amount to be in your position good sir, so would hate to see you getting ripped of and tricked in to a "duff" back running car. Not being rude but is there a rough figure your willing to spend on a car, or are you more so wanting a car, spares and support for an overall figure each year? Could be a couple of cars in the series currently for sale of which you could possibly negotiate a price for the car and the mechanics/technicians to continue there care for it.

PS: If I help research and find you a car, do I get to be team manager biggrin for an 18 year old, I know my group c!

These are just a random here cars i've found, all varying prices, but the good thing is you can always ring up and chat about group c there going to have a good knowledge and only aid you in your search.
http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/other/1327846864...
http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/44319/1989_k...
http://www.damax.co.uk/for-sale/

or if you fancy going C1 in style theres a good few nice jags here from some experts:
http://www.jdclassics.co.uk/cars/historic-racing-s... i believe they run gary pearsons jaguar, which has always been competitive.
http://www.donlawracing.com/GroupC_Index.htm son, Justin Law is always a winner in his xjr 8/9


Edited by ellis427 on Monday 3rd September 15:47

triplerotorracer

Original Poster:

32 posts

141 months

Monday 3rd September 2012
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Great info all round and as a result I am going in a couple of weeks to the Spa six hours where the group C circus is racing. I will see how they all operate and who seems to be well organised and hopefully fair priced. However any contact numbers for those guys that have good reputations would help now. I was thinking around £135k purchase price which gets things like an ARGO, ADA needing a bit of work, an already refurbished TIGA, a Spice with lower power engine needing work. Jump up £25k and mint C2 cars appear and again a Spice with lesser engine than the other equivalents at same money. £200k get a good all round Spice refurbished with good engine and £250k gets into C1 class by way of Nissan but that is already double current budget. I would Love a Jag XJR anything or C1 Porsche or Sauber Mercedes but big big money to buy and run. I saw someone just spent £350k refurbishing a Lancia LC2. There are some bargain projects around where the base project is available at £45k but estimating refurbishment is a dangerous game and could take a year when I could be racing. So back to reality they all vary enormously but I have found a TIGA that is refurbished and has won C2 in historic Group C race when last out so should be competitive and is still in budget. My enquiries and talking to everybody has also shown that someone will always slag off other cars and the only ones not criticised are way beyond budget so you become a bit damned if you do damned if you don't. I must also bear in mind that buying is one thing the estimated annual budget cost to run a season is £50,000 so my three year budget to actually race is £300,000 allowing for some repairs but big repairs could mean saving money by missing races. The entry fee alone for the Group C Le Mans pre 24 hour race is £6000. Not a time to crash on the first corner.

randy

539 posts

275 months

Wednesday 5th September 2012
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We have a Nissan available and also a C1 Spice that is very soon to hit the market with very low engine and gearbox miles and thoroughly sorted. I raced in the championship for quite a few years and have been lucky enough to drive a large variety of the cars including Spice C1 and C2, Nissan, Porsche, Argo, etc. Feel free to give me a buzz, even just for a chat about my experiences of the different cars - 07970823081

aycee

267 posts

159 months

Friday 14th September 2012
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I too have been looking at this but refurb costs can be eye watering.
It seems to me that to not look silly at the back every race, needs a top c2 car at least, someone that can drive it properly and someone else to set it up and run it properly.

From what I have been told, lesser engines such as the v6 rover seem to cost similar to a Dfl these days.I know what I would rather.


triplerotorracer

Original Poster:

32 posts

141 months

Saturday 15th September 2012
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Deal just done on C2 TIGA with fresh DFL so lets hope I can drive it well enough to do it justice. Had a chat with a few of you guys and think I have the right people set up to run it but will be finding out more at Spa next week and later in month at a no noise restricted test day at Donington. Not sure what is better than a cosworth V8 screaming through straight pipes.

ellis427

1,653 posts

178 months

Saturday 15th September 2012
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triplerotorracer said:
Deal just done on C2 TIGA with fresh DFL so lets hope I can drive it well enough to do it justice. Had a chat with a few of you guys and think I have the right people set up to run it but will be finding out more at Spa next week and later in month at a no noise restricted test day at Donington. Not sure what is better than a cosworth V8 screaming through straight pipes.
sorry i never replied been very busy trying to earn some pennys so I can afford to go and see these cars at events!

Congrates on the purchase any chance of a photo? and a cosworth v8 striaght pipes sounds absolutely brilliant best of luck to you! your living the dream cloud9 maybe one day will join you!

anyway please do keep us updated?

triplerotorracer

Original Poster:

32 posts

141 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
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Not sure if this photo upload works but here goes.

triplerotorracer

Original Poster:

32 posts

141 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
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Photo worked. This is it at a modern Group C meet where it won in class. You can see the exhaust exit for the left cylinder bank just in front of rear wheel.

chevronb37

6,471 posts

185 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
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Congratulations on the purchase! I'd have thought a Tiga or Spice running a DFL in C2 must be the best value to start in Group C racing. An old pal of mine, Andy Meyrick, runs a Spice SE89 for him and his dad. Might be worth considering as a contact if you need any help running/preparing your car.

Look forward to see it out and about soon.

triplerotorracer

Original Poster:

32 posts

141 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
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Thanks for that. The spice is about £75 - £80k more so that saving covers a season and an engine rebuild. If your contact is happy to let me have his number that would be great. Do you know if they are at Spa this weekend?

chevronb37

6,471 posts

185 months

Wednesday 19th September 2012
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I'm not sure actually, send me a PM and I'll pass on his details to you.

aycee

267 posts

159 months

Friday 21st September 2012
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Tiga ,my favourite.Pretty cars alongside the ALD.. 365?

Edited by aycee on Friday 21st September 08:14


Edited by aycee on Friday 21st September 08:46


Edited by aycee on Friday 21st September 08:58

ellis427

1,653 posts

178 months

Monday 24th September 2012
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triplerotorracer said:


Not sure if this photo upload works but here goes.
Looking good that mate!
what paint scheme are you planing then, also hope to see a ph smiley on there.
Best of luck with this project and good luck in the new season next year!

triplerotorracer

Original Poster:

32 posts

141 months

Thursday 27th September 2012
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I think I am going to have to stay red. The group C series ask that you keep all the period livery and the sponsor stickers from same period. The car currently looks as it did when it ran Le Mans in 1989, albeit it stopped after 12 hours racing with electrics. There was a time when it ran in the Nurburgring 1000km and won in class and then it was all white but many other cars in series are all white and only a few are red such as a couple of porsche 962s and Mazda 787b. Nice to be a bit different.

ellis427

1,653 posts

178 months

Saturday 29th September 2012
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triplerotorracer said:
I think I am going to have to stay red. The group C series ask that you keep all the period livery and the sponsor stickers from same period. The car currently looks as it did when it ran Le Mans in 1989, albeit it stopped after 12 hours racing with electrics. There was a time when it ran in the Nurburgring 1000km and won in class and then it was all white but many other cars in series are all white and only a few are red such as a couple of porsche 962s and Mazda 787b. Nice to be a bit different.
That sounds very fair to me, i meant like a period paint scheme as in the picture it looks very understickered compaired to many with there huge full body liveries! However i doubt that it will affect its pace to much wink

The car has history then, even more impressive sounds like you've brought a gem of a car, can't wait to hear and see it for real.

aycee

267 posts

159 months

Sunday 2nd December 2012
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Who will be prepping the car? Pm if its private?