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johng39

Original Poster:

2,781 posts

48 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
Some of you already know that I have been pondering the upgrade and in discussion with Mike since Yeti had his exhaust modified. Well on 1st October 2012 my V12V will be in for mods that Mike believes will give me 1 or 2 extra BHP. As the cat seems to be out of the bag, I will start a thread that in fairness will take us into October to finalise. So for all DBS & V12V owners, watch this space. I know that Guy is having the same work done (perhaps minus the inlet manifolds) so there will be some comparisons to be had.

I am looking for a different noise to the Yeti mobil and want to retain the deeper baritone of the standard car, so we will see what is available. The Yeti exhaust was a no compromise solution, whereas mine will have some compromise to adjust the cost and sound available.

I will be very honest on the feedback when it comes back the week after and we are experimenting with 2 possible scenario's

1) Exhaust/Cams - 7650 redline (up from 7000) and approx 60BHP delta increase & +15NM torque
2) Exhaust/Cams/Inlets - 7000 redline approx 45BHP delta increase & +50NM torque

From Mikes email

Here is what we will do....

1- Dyno test car
2- Update with exhaust manifold, catalysts and induction system
3- Dyno test
4- Update with high lift cams
5- Dyno test
6- Give car back to you for a spin and big grin....!

The delta increase we deliver will be no less than 60BHP. There will be a torque increase across the rev range from 1000 rpm in the order of approx. 15Nm. Any upgrade project we deliver comes with 3 year unlimited mileage warranty,guarantee that MOT emissions test and noise tests are passed, but most importantly – no driveability error states or MIL (check engine light)
errors.

I mentioned in our last telephone conversation that we could fit the long tract inlet manifolds fitted to DB9's. This would give significant torque increase (+50Nm) from 1000 to 5500rpm, but power would tail off by about 15BHP from what you would have at step 6 above (your new redline will be 7650 rpm). The inlet manifolds could be painted any colour you liked. This engine power output characteristic might not sound like it floats your boat, but driving a V12V with this much torque would be interesting - it might even change your driving style because you might like the monster torque delivered??.

So watch this space and I will let you all know if the upgrade is worth pursuing or just makes the car totally undriveable for us mere mortals.

The cheeky cockerneeee

Jockman

9,490 posts

48 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
Did you really intend the pun in the title Cockernee? smile

krisdelta

2,573 posts

89 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
Sounds awesome - is the throttle response on the V12V already better than the V8?

johng39

Original Poster:

2,781 posts

48 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
krisdelta said:
Sounds awesome - is the throttle response on the V12V already better than the V8?
er yes. Instant, especially with sport on (which is always)

johng39

Original Poster:

2,781 posts

48 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
Jockman said:
Did you really intend the pun in the title Cockernee? smile
not when I typed it, but I did smile when I re-read it.
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Lunablack

3,473 posts

50 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
Sounds interestingsmile

From a purely personal perspective, I've often found that engines that need lots of revs to get the best out of them, quickly become quite tiring to drive.... Whereas engines that produce loads of grunt especially in the mid range, are usually easier to drive, and can be very very quick ....

Mind you.... A 6 litre V12 isn't going to be lacking in the go deptbiggrin

George H

12,663 posts

52 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
Your cousin 38x removed is going to be jealous, I know he wanted a monster V12V cool

I'm looking forward to hearing the deeper tone compared to Yeti's Ferrari-esque V12 sound smile

yeti

10,339 posts

163 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
Gor blimey guv'nor, that'll be a right 'ed turner and no mistake biggrin

What are your feelings at the moment John, the big power or the big torque? The big torque does seem the best compromise TBH - 45bhp is no small amount and 50Nm on a n/a engine is a very big amount!!

AMDBSNick

3,985 posts

50 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
johng39 said:
Here is what we will do....

1- Dyno test car
2- Update with exhaust manifold, catalysts and induction system
3- Dyno test
4- Update with high lift cams
5- Dyno test
6- Give car back to you for a spin and big grin....!
7- Then relieve you of a large wad of hard earned wonga
EFA biggrin

jonby

2,462 posts

45 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
What are the CAM upgrades you refer to and are you able to give an idea to cost/power increase of CAMs alone ? I thought there was c. 45/50 bhp gain from manifold/cats alone, or is that where you are having the 'cheaper option' you refer to and the CAM upgrades make up the difference

I am already planning for V12VR and had assumed I would just go for the manifold/cats option.........

johng39

Original Poster:

2,781 posts

48 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
yeti said:
Gor blimey guv'nor, that'll be a right 'ed turner and no mistake biggrin

What are your feelings at the moment John, the big power or the big torque? The big torque does seem the best compromise TBH - 45bhp is no small amount and 50Nm on a n/a engine is a very big amount!!
For me it is whether it feels like it is wheezing at the top end (like Nick does now he has stopped smoking biggrin) with the torque and less power. Headline numbers count for nought without torque with regard to acceleration/drivability, but it is well documented that I drive between 5 & 7K whenever I can. This is why we were considering the exhaust/cam option only but the issue is the max power is pushed up the rev range a lot and with the inlet manifolds it brings it back to 6,500 (whereas standard it is 6250). Without the inlets the rev limiter needs to be at 7,650, which again is adding more stress to wring the best from the engine. On the flip side, I struggle for grip now and a barrel load of torque may make it impossible to drive in low gears. All a bit of an experiment, as with you wink

jonby said:
What are the CAM upgrades you refer to and are you able to give an idea to cost/power increase of CAMs alone ? I thought there was c. 45/50 bhp gain from manifold/cats alone, or is that where you are having the 'cheaper option' you refer to and the CAM upgrades make up the difference

I am already planning for V12VR and had assumed I would just go for the manifold/cats option.........
Yeti's exhaust is a no compromise effort that I felt was a) expensive & b) did not deliver the noise I wanted c) could be done almost as good for less money.

Mike is the man that can answer this, I cannot offer a number exactly but I believe that Yeti's exhaust increased delta by 72bhp and the lesser article is expected to produce a delta of 60ish bhp

yeti

10,339 posts

163 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
johng39 said:
Mike is the man that can answer this, I cannot offer a number exactly but I believe that Yeti's exhaust increased delta by 72bhp and the lesser article is expected to produce a delta of 60ish bhp
My final delta was 76bhp with camshafts, inlet manifolds and exhaust system.

Exhaust system only (manifolds and catalysts, standard back-box) was 46bhp.

But this isn;t just top-end stuff, it is felt all the way through the range smile

Zod

27,165 posts

146 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
Could we have an indication of cost, please?

hornbaek

2,220 posts

123 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
Have any of you ever driven the V12V on a German unrestricted Autobahn. If not, I suggest that you do that before you book it into BR for a power and sound upgrade. I have just come home from a European hoon in my V12V and to claim that this car is short of power or sound is simply ludicrous. On UK roads there is not even a remote chance of utilising the existing power of this car and adding more would simply result in spinning the wheels faster from a standing start. The first step to more sound is simply to remove the parcel shelf in the back. I drove without that as I had my road bike in the back but the sound level inside the cabin is significantly enhanced without the shelf, making any sort of conversation totally meaningless.

Now if a BR upgrade is simply for the joy of pushing the envelope to see how far it stretches and money is no object I think it is a fabulous idea and fully endorse the exercise but if it is a means of getting a more drivable car then I think it will all be in vain - good luck anyway and will be interested to read the result.

johng39

Original Poster:

2,781 posts

48 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
Zod said:
Could we have an indication of cost, please?
£6.5K+VAT for exhaust/cams is on Mikes post

johng39

Original Poster:

2,781 posts

48 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
hornbaek said:
Have any of you ever driven the V12V on a German unrestricted Autobahn. If not, I suggest that you do that before you book it into BR for a power and sound upgrade. I have just come home from a European hoon in my V12V and to claim that this car is short of power or sound is simply ludicrous. On UK roads there is not even a remote chance of utilising the existing power of this car and adding more would simply result in spinning the wheels faster from a standing start. The first step to more sound is simply to remove the parcel shelf in the back. I drove without that as I had my road bike in the back but the sound level inside the cabin is significantly enhanced without the shelf, making any sort of conversation totally meaningless.

Now if a BR upgrade is simply for the joy of pushing the envelope to see how far it stretches and money is no object I think it is a fabulous idea and fully endorse the exercise but if it is a means of getting a more drivable car then I think it will all be in vain - good luck anyway and will be interested to read the result.
You sound like my MRS biggrin

Why is always her question......... because you can is always my answer wink

yeti

10,339 posts

163 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
hornbaek said:
stuff
My interest is not just putting my foot down and seeing how fast it goes on an autobahn, it's how quickly it gets to the speed I want in the space I have and then back down from that speed for the next corner or for the next overtake. Or how much speed I can get up between sets of 2nd gear hairpins in the alps.

I hit 7k revs plenty of times in 2nd and 3rd gear and pushed on in 4th on our trip last weekend, didn't struggle for grip or light up the TC. Does it need more power - no. Would I like some more... sure, why not smile

yeti

10,339 posts

163 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
hornbaek said:
I have just come home from a European hoon in my V12V and to claim that this car is short of power or sound is simply ludicrous.
Not sure anyone did claim it was short of either of those things? Because of course it isn't.

Have you considered writing to Ferrari to tell them how stupid they are producing the F12berlinetta with 730bhp? Idiots!!

AMDBSNick

3,985 posts

50 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
yeti said:
My interest is not just putting my foot down and seeing how fast it goes on an autobahn, it's how quickly it gets to the speed I want in the space I have and then back down from that speed for the next corner or for the next overtake. Or how much speed I can get up between sets of 2nd gear hairpins in the alps.

I hit 7k revs plenty of times in 2nd and 3rd gear and pushed on in 4th on our trip last weekend, didn't struggle for grip or light up the TC. Does it need more power - no. Would I like some more... sure, why not smile
In fairnes to Hornbaek he was on about the V12V not the girlie sub 500 jobbie you started with wink

Tony V12V

2,206 posts

40 months

[news] 
Wednesday 5th September 2012 quote quote all
johng39 said:
Zod said:
Could we have an indication of cost, please?
£6.5K+VAT for exhaust/cams is on Mikes post
Should that not be exhaust and cats John ?
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