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ecain63

Original Poster:

7,701 posts

61 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
Out of pure interest (and possible near-future intent), who are the 'right' people to see when mapping E60/1 M5's? I know of 3 main providers in the UK: DMS, Evolve and CA Automotive but im sure there are more.

Of these 3 providers ive read a fair bit about hype and hope, actual figures vs promised figures, value vs non-value and limits of performance vs durability. From this reading ive got an order of preference in my head, but as much of the research is from slightly less well heeled members of the M-brigade on other forums and video hosting sites im keen to know what the PH guys would suggest, preferably from experience.

My criteria are:

Not interested in peak power claims, but obviously a good increase is nice.
Better drivability, as is much talked about when mapping M5's. More torque through the range etc. Would be nice to see if the M5 can really be made more user friendly when you dont want to be pedalling it around the rev range when just pottering through town.
Safety is paramount. Map must be safe and professional and i dont do 'chip tuners' who just plug and play a code that'll get me a 1-billion BHP boost for £5.
De-limit (might do VMax at some point).
Good aftersales reputation. Want someone who will offer support if there's a niggle rather than a tuner who takes the money and runs. Also, should my dealer rewrite software id want a guarantee that the tuner will reload the map FOC.

Ive had cars tuned correctly and incorrectly in the past and although often the peak BHP is very similar the differences between the driver experiences is monumental. I had a supposed MTM stage 1 map loaded on to my RS6 soon after i bought it in 2008. The peak power figure was great and as advertised but i was convinced something was up. Being a noob to the prestige tuning world (had tuned Pug 205 GTi-6's previous and Mitsi Shoguns with piggyback ECUs but thats all simple stuff) at the time i hadnt really done any research and went for the first bright spark i saw. Turned out the RS6 gearbox has to be mapped to suit the revised engine map else the gearbox tells the engine to cut torque above standard output. The engine could still put out an increased BHP but it was regulated by the gearbox software in order to protect itself. The box was not mapped in my case and result was that i had it redone by a superb company called MRC who only really advertise via the RS and Porsche forums. They are now world renowned in the RS tuning field and its this kind of tuner that im looking for with the BM.

Who's your recommendation?

Eddie

Vixpy1

41,370 posts

150 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
Its Pointless IMHO, despite what companies claim

ecain63

Original Poster:

7,701 posts

61 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
That was always my opinion but as much as the BHP claims might not amount to much i have heard the M5 can become a better drivers car with an expert map. Thats what im looking for. No sparks or record breakers, just a genuine improvement for what is already an epic car.

clived

436 posts

126 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
I've driven Evolve's Alpha-N tuned M5 with MAF delete (although I don't recall if it also had hardware mods) - but it was very much not a waste of time - awesome smile

rassi

1,433 posts

137 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
Evolve seems to have nailed it: http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-tou... They also do the AlphaN modification.

For further discussion, also see http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-tou...
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omniflow

293 posts

37 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
I'd think long and hard before you do this, especially if you have a warranty. I am SURE that a dealer will be able to spot it. On mine the red line indicator had moved very slightly.

VMax is alot of fun, but the E61 is a heavy car, and the slowing down bit at the end is very scary. Realistically you're not going to get more than 185 without seriously expensive mods. The guy from Evolve was at VMax when I was there - very nice guy, and an awesome valvetronic exhaust. Just to be clear, they're NOT the people I used for my re-map.

My car is now throwing up engine management errors, and on Saturday went into reduced power mode. I am almost certain I'm going to ask for it to be returned to stock.


ecain63

Original Poster:

7,701 posts

61 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
Yeah, Evolve are currently my #1 choice given the views of the paying public. Not sure on the remote mapping as id prefer to go to the site but im sure it works just fine. CA are also pretty well thought of but need more info.

ecain63

Original Poster:

7,701 posts

61 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
omniflow said:
I'd think long and hard before you do this, especially if you have a warranty. I am SURE that a dealer will be able to spot it. On mine the red line indicator had moved very slightly.

VMax is alot of fun, but the E61 is a heavy car, and the slowing down bit at the end is very scary. Realistically you're not going to get more than 185 without seriously expensive mods. The guy from Evolve was at VMax when I was there - very nice guy, and an awesome valvetronic exhaust. Just to be clear, they're NOT the people I used for my re-map.

My car is now throwing up engine management errors, and on Saturday went into reduced power mode. I am almost certain I'm going to ask for it to be returned to stock.
Ouchy! Who did you use? PM me if youd prefer.

HarryW

12,127 posts

155 months

[news] 
Monday 24th September 2012 quote quote all
Vixpy1 said:
Its Pointless IMHO, despite what companies claim
Listen to the man with a rolling road who see's a whole host of different cars and their the results day in day out.

IMHE, M's are pretty much sorted on the mapping front, the new generation Turbo's may offer more in the future though, then again it makes it easier to hand grenade them too.........

Contigo

2,684 posts

95 months

[news] 
Tuesday 25th September 2012 quote quote all
Paramount do one and they are out Slough way. Well worth a look imo.


rassi

1,433 posts

137 months

[news] 
Tuesday 25th September 2012 quote quote all
Vixpy1 said:
Its Pointless IMHO, despite what companies claim
Sorry to take this slightly OT, but do the E60 M5 generally make the factory claimed figures (unlike the E36 M3 Evo or E39 M5)?

smokey145

616 posts

36 months

[news] 
Tuesday 25th September 2012 quote quote all
what is the point of mapping a NA car?

jontysafe

1,480 posts

64 months

[news] 
Tuesday 25th September 2012 quote quote all
Yes, generally if we'll serviced the v10 will make the factory stated output.

I wish they still made it but updated it with CSL mods mated to the new M5's dct box. All the work for this has actually been done. Stick it in a new M1 body a la Audi and their R8 and Bob's your uncle. Do you think it would sell?

ecain63

Original Poster:

7,701 posts

61 months

[news] 
Tuesday 25th September 2012 quote quote all
Mine made quoted factory figures when dyno'd last year. Took 3 hard runs to rid the ecu of my grandma like driving habits though. Damned intelligent programming.

As I've said, we all know you can't get much more zip from the S85 engine with just a map, but the drivability thing does seem to have some foundation.

Vixpy1

41,370 posts

150 months

[news] 
Tuesday 25th September 2012 quote quote all
rassi said:
Vixpy1 said:
Its Pointless IMHO, despite what companies claim
Sorry to take this slightly OT, but do the E60 M5 generally make the factory claimed figures (unlike the E36 M3 Evo or E39 M5)?
Yep, providing its on decent fuel, they run like a bag of st on 95. Usually 490+ is expected on Vpower.


Contigo

2,684 posts

95 months

[news] 
Tuesday 25th September 2012 quote quote all
Vixpy1 said:
Yep, providing its on decent fuel, they run like a bag of st on 95. Usually 490+ is expected on Vpower.
Are you 100% sure about this?

It's not what I remember reading from various fuel tests. Apparently the E6x has some special knock detectors that do things very differently than other sensors and the power is not affected. When tested on 95 and 98+ RON it ran the same.


Contigo

2,684 posts

95 months

[news] 
Tuesday 25th September 2012 quote quote all
Found it. Read this and see what you think.


Vixpy1

41,370 posts

150 months

[news] 
Tuesday 25th September 2012 quote quote all
Contigo said:
Vixpy1 said:
Yep, providing its on decent fuel, they run like a bag of st on 95. Usually 490+ is expected on Vpower.
Are you 100% sure about this?

It's not what I remember reading from various fuel tests. Apparently the E6x has some special knock detectors that do things very differently than other sensors and the power is not affected. When tested on 95 and 98+ RON it ran the same.
Can only speak from experience

Contigo

2,684 posts

95 months

[news] 
Tuesday 25th September 2012 quote quote all
Vixpy1 said:
Can only speak from experience
Yep that's fine I just wanted to see your thoughts on it really as on the odd time I've run mine on 95 it has been fine and not felt any different at all. If you have first hand experience of cars running lower on the RR when fuelled on 95 only then I can understand those thoughts. It's interesting though all the tech in the M5 with the plugs doing the knock sensing.



Cheburator mk2

1,559 posts

85 months

[news] 
Tuesday 25th September 2012 quote quote all
Contigo said:
Yep that's fine I just wanted to see your thoughts on it really as on the odd time I've run mine on 95 it has been fine and not felt any different at all. If you have first hand experience of cars running lower on the RR when fuelled on 95 only then I can understand those thoughts. It's interesting though all the tech in the M5 with the plugs doing the knock sensing.
That system is a work of art compared to the old school microphone based one.

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