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gambisk

Original Poster:

161 posts

45 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th September 2012 quote quote all
Just read that Nasa has added a further 5500 galaxies to the hubble XDF image full story here http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/sep/26/hubb...

I don't know about you but I can hardly get my head round it, everytime I think there is no way that the Universe can be bigger something like this comes out and its only a small portion of the sky!

ETA: the full image can be viewed here http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/690958main_p123...

Eric Mc

74,256 posts

145 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th September 2012 quote quote all
The universe hasn't got bigger (apaert from expansion, of course). It's just got fuller.

scubadude

1,358 posts

77 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th September 2012 quote quote all
Its not fuller, its always had the same amount of matter, the XDF just shows us some older bits of it.

(Agreed its still wonderfully mind boggling)

s1962a

1,112 posts

42 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th September 2012 quote quote all
That is amazing.

Given the sheer scale of the universe that we know, it leaves me thinking that we can't possibly be the only ones out there.

mrloudly

2,385 posts

115 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th September 2012 quote quote all
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-1972...

"Moon for scale" That's not right surely!! The moon would be miniscule???
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DonnyMac

3,360 posts

83 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th September 2012 quote quote all
My brain 'urts and thus I must be dumb...

I read the BBC article where they believe they have 'pictured' the newest (found) galaxy at around 600m years old, presumably this is worked out by them calculating that the light has taken 13.1bn years to get to us - assuming the universe is 13.7bn years old - I get this, I think.

They look forward to hubble2 whereby they'll be able to see even younger galaxies, and on it goes until eventually we will have an image of a galaxy that has just been created moments after the bigbang.

Presumably, we will be able to achieve this as these objects are constant light (wavelength) emitters/reflectors and always have been up to that point - 13.7bn years and 1 day.

However, I seem to remember that if we continue to improve our telescope technology we will witness the bigbang; how, if it was an event which was fleeting, not constant, happened 13.7bn years ago and we're seemingly 13.7bn years from it (but we're not on the edge of the known universe)...

So what will we see? A flash?
In what direction? Or from every direction but at different distances?
...and finally, what will the telescope see beyond 13.7bn light years?

As I said my brain hurts, I thought I had it, then lost it as I typed this out on a mobile phone.

Help.

Eta - is the age of the universe relative to where you are in it?

I'll stop now smile


mrloudly

2,385 posts

115 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
Eric Mc said:
The universe hasn't got bigger (apaert from expansion, of course). It's just got fuller.
I can never understand this... What's the universe expanding into?

VxDuncan

2,778 posts

114 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
mrloudly said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-1972...

"Moon for scale" That's not right surely!! The moon would be miniscule???
Yes, but no!

I think they are refering to scale in the nightsky, as viewed from Earth - ie if you look up the moon is yay wide, while the area scaned is a lot smaller.

In a Father Dougal kind of way.

Eric Mc

74,256 posts

145 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
scubadude said:
Its not fuller, its always had the same amount of matter, the XDF just shows us some older bits of it.

(Agreed its still wonderfully mind boggling)
OK, I'll rephrase - "It's just fuller than we thought" (which is what I meant).

AshVX220

1,990 posts

70 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
DonnyMac said:
My brain 'urts and thus I must be dumb...

I read the BBC article where they believe they have 'pictured' the newest (found) galaxy at around 600m years old, presumably this is worked out by them calculating that the light has taken 13.1bn years to get to us - assuming the universe is 13.7bn years old - I get this, I think.

They look forward to hubble2 whereby they'll be able to see even younger galaxies, and on it goes until eventually we will have an image of a galaxy that has just been created moments after the bigbang.

Presumably, we will be able to achieve this as these objects are constant light (wavelength) emitters/reflectors and always have been up to that point - 13.7bn years and 1 day.

However, I seem to remember that if we continue to improve our telescope technology we will witness the bigbang; how, if it was an event which was fleeting, not constant, happened 13.7bn years ago and we're seemingly 13.7bn years from it (but we're not on the edge of the known universe)...

So what will we see? A flash?
In what direction? Or from every direction but at different distances?
...and finally, what will the telescope see beyond 13.7bn light years?

As I said my brain hurts, I thought I had it, then lost it as I typed this out on a mobile phone.

Help.

Eta - is the age of the universe relative to where you are in it?

I'll stop now smile
I thought we (Earth) was only 4 billion years old, so ther's a good few billion light years of stuff ahead of our expansion and 4 billion light years worth behind it?

loose cannon

2,494 posts

121 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
mrloudly said:
I can never understand this... What's the universe expanding into?
lol and what did it go bang inside of in the first place ? another universe ?

mrloudly

2,385 posts

115 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
loose cannon said:
mrloudly said:
I can never understand this... What's the universe expanding into?
lol and what did it go bang inside of in the first place ? another universe ?
What went "Bang"? It's a real mind screw....

Eric Mc

74,256 posts

145 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
It never want bang. Bang is the wrong word to use. It just began expanding from a singularity at a fixed point in the past - and has continued to do so ever since.

And it's not expanding into anything - at least nothing that we could understand in out three/four dimensional appreciation of space and time.

mrloudly

2,385 posts

115 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
Eric Mc said:
It never want bang. Bang is the wrong word to use. It just began expanding from a singularity at a fixed point in the past - and has continued to do so ever since.

And it's not expanding into anything - at least nothing that we could understand in out three/four dimensional appreciation of space and time.
"It just began expanding" What's "it"? and what did "it" expand into from where LOL We can't really explain and that's what the human mind hates, everything must
be "put to bed" but in this case we can't.

Eric Mc

74,256 posts

145 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
"It" is the thing we refer to as "the universe" - which could just as well be called "everything".

We might have to face the fact that trying to understand such concepts may be beyond us. It doesn't stop us from trying though - and that's where all the fun is.

loose cannon

2,494 posts

121 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
its very hard for my simpleton brain to work out how something expanded into everything from nothing ?
come to think of it what is nothing in that case ? is it something or just something of nothing,
grrr ive just had a skipsoid embolism

Eric Mc

74,256 posts

145 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
Even the best brains in the world can't really visualise such events. Indeed, "visualising" requires you to paint a mental picture using the normal dimensions we deal with on a day to day basis - which means that the mere effort of trying to viualise something that probably didn't and/or isn't just happening in the dimensions we CAN visualise is almost a waste of effort.

loose cannon

2,494 posts

121 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
it's very interesting though as much as it is frustrating smile
so many possibles and explanations scratchchin

AshVX220

1,990 posts

70 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
I find it absolutely astonishing how vast the Universe is. Images like this just blow my mind even more, it's fantastic, such a shame, we'll never go to any of these places. We'll be lucky to send a man to mars in my lifetime!!

Eric Mc

74,256 posts

145 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
There is nothing wrong with trying to find out as much as we can about the fundamental way in which our universe began and behaves. But I doubt we'll ever TRULY be able to visualise these events in any meaningful way.
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