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Digga

13,491 posts

168 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
wolves_wanderer said:
tinman0 said:
Somewhatfoolish said:
most Brits, like "most" of any country are basically retards.
How is the air up there on that high horse you seem to be on?
You've never had a public-facing job have you?
I've had precisely this discussion with various people before. Sometimes, you need to experience the density to believe it. Most professionals seldom realise that it's not only experience and qualification that allows them to exceed average earnings, but merely the natural 'cream floating to the top principle'.

ETA there was a thread in the Business section about dumb things customers have done/said which was fantastic.

Breadvan72

18,960 posts

48 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
I don't get that. High earnings are a factor of markets. City traders are often less highly educated and qualified than doctors, lawyers, and engineers, and they arguably contribute less to the working of society, but they are paid more than the learned professions because the market says so.

Borghetto

2,067 posts

68 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
Look's like one of the Judges feels his 'mentaL' impairment should be a reason to speed up his extradition. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19814992

BliarOut

59,313 posts

124 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
Borghetto said:
Look's like one of the Judges feels his 'mentaL' impairment should be a reason to speed up his extradition. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19814992
Sounds like this approach is going to well and truly backfire hehe

Breadvan72

18,960 posts

48 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
Sir John always speaks his mind, and his comments during a hearing are a reliable clue to how he will decide a case.

My forecast: Hamza will lose. He will then apply for permission to appeal. This Court will say no. He will apply for permission to the Court of Appeal. It will say no on the papers. He will renew his application, have a short hearing, and be turned down. That will be the end of it, and he will then be extradited.

The outcomes in the other cases may vary.
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SplatSpeed

7,271 posts

136 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
Breadvan72 said:
Sir John always speaks his mind, and his comments during a hearing are a reliable clue to how he will decide a case.

My forecast: Hamza will lose. He will then apply for permission to appeal. This Court will say no. He will apply for permission to the Court of Appeal. It will say no on the papers. He will renew his application, have a short hearing, and be turned down. That will be the end of it, and he will then be extradited.

The outcomes in the other cases may vary.
jack ruby saved the US a fortune!

Sonic

3,584 posts

92 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
Matt80M said:
Torture is too good for this hate-filled douche-bag.
It sounds like we might have had a good go by destroying his mental capacity before extraditing him hehe

Breadvan72

18,960 posts

48 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
One more feeble effort: Hamza stooges may seek a judicial review of the DPP's refusal to back a prosecution of him in the UK. This challenge will be booted out quickly.

tom2019

666 posts

80 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
Will his court appearance in the US be televised ?

Should be a laugh to see his face when he gets sentenced

maxfan

1,622 posts

28 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
If the screws kept switching the lights on and off how ever would he have been able to have a tommy tank ?

Breadvan72

18,960 posts

48 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
It doesn't take a bloke an hour to have a Sherman, even with a hooky hand. Hang on, they're both hooks. This could be a problem. Could he ask the guards for an assist?

The result of this latest fracas will be known on Friday.



PS: I have just checked, and there is no human right to knock one out, so we're in the clear on that one. Phew.

Edited by Breadvan72 on Wednesday 3rd October 17:55

tinman0

18,231 posts

125 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th October 2012 quote quote all
Breadvan72 said:
I struggle to understand why people think that, because someone is accused of something, they must be guilty.
Not at all. I think, and quite fairly, that if someone is so desperate to avoid justice they are very well aware that it's not going to end well for them. Now how would they know the outcome if they were innocent?

I also tend to believe that when a country/state is so determined to get hold of someone, then the charges will be pretty serious, and the case will be pretty good. They aren't going to all this time and trouble because of here say.

Breadvan72

18,960 posts

48 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th October 2012 quote quote all
So, in other words, if someone is accused of something, they must be guilty.

If I were accused of something which is not regarded as worth of prosecution here, on evidence that seems tenuous, I would fight hard against being extradited. Keenness on the part of the US tells us little. Do we always trust governments? The US has been keen to get all sorts of people, and took many steps to get them, including illegal steps. See , for example, this notorious case:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar

The US also held British citizens at Guantanamo without trial for several years. The US was very keen to get those people, and indeed got them.

The present case is not identical, as at least the US is following due process, but the other cases could reasonably prompt concern in an innocent man as well as a guilty one . I do not know if Ahmad is or is not guilty of anything other than maybe having the wrong sort of opinions, but there does seem some basis for concern about his case. Hamza, however, can sling his hooks and stand trial.

SplatSpeed

7,271 posts

136 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th October 2012 quote quote all
Breadvan72 said:
So, in other words, if someone is accused of something, they must be guilty.

If I were accused of something which is not regarded as worth of prosecution here, on evidence that seems tenuous, I would fight hard against being extradited. Keenness on the part of the US tells us little. Do we always trust governments? The US has been keen to get all sorts of people, and took many steps to get them, including illegal steps. See , for example, this notorious case:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar

The US also held British citizens at Guantanamo without trial for several years. The US was very keen to get those people, and indeed got them.

The present case is not identical, as at least the US is following due process, but the other cases could reasonably prompt concern in an innocent man as well as a guilty one . I do not know if Ahmad is or is not guilty of anything other than maybe having the wrong sort of opinions, but there does seem some basis for concern about his case. Hamza, however, can sling his hooks and stand trial.
remind me how he lost his eye and his hand?

this ahole is guilty in the court of public opinion!

Breadvan72

18,960 posts

48 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th October 2012 quote quote all
So are lots of people, which is why we have courts and do not sentence people on the basis of what Joe Public thinks. Hamza has been a crim, and has done time for that. He may also be guilty of what is alleged against him in the US. He should go and be tried for that, so that a jury can decide.

My residual concern is about the Ahmad case, not the Hamza case.

REALIST123

3,665 posts

38 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th October 2012 quote quote all
Breadvan72 said:
I don't get that. High earnings are a factor of markets. City traders are often less highly educated and qualified than doctors, lawyers, and engineers, and they arguably contribute less to the working of society, but they are paid more than the learned professions because the market says so.
The 'learned professions'. What a misnomer that is.

The fact is that many of those 'professions' are highly paid because the markets are manipulated and controlled by the so called professionals. It isn't the market 'saying so'.


Breadvan72

18,960 posts

48 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th October 2012 quote quote all
How does that work then? I get paid what my clients are willing to pay, and they negotiate hard. I have lots of competitors, and have to do beauty parades, tenders and so forth. Some clients pay a non negotiable rate set by them.

The term learned professions seems accurate to describe people who train for several years in order to qualify, and are subject to continuing education obligations whilst working. Most doctors and engineers that I know are pretty learned. Lawyers vary.

Edited by Breadvan72 on Thursday 4th October 09:29

IroningMan

7,185 posts

131 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th October 2012 quote quote all
Breadvan72 said:
How does that work then? I get paid what my clients are willing to pay, and they negotiate hard. I have lots of competitors, and have to do beauty parades, tenders and so forth. Some clients pay a non ngeotiable rate set by them.

The term learned professions seems accurate to describe people who train for several years in order to qualify, and are subject to continuing education obligations whilst working. Most doctors and engineers that I know are pretty learned. Lawyers vary.
Google 'Closed Shop'.... smile

Breadvan72

18,960 posts

48 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th October 2012 quote quote all
Are you suggesting that anyone who wants to should be able to practise medicine or law, or build bridges? It seems reasonable to me to require entrants to professions to have decent academic qualifications and to pass professional exams. They then get paid according to supply and demand laws, or, in government work, according to rates set nationally, which are lower than market rates.

Zod

26,464 posts

143 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th October 2012 quote quote all
REALIST123 said:
Breadvan72 said:
I don't get that. High earnings are a factor of markets. City traders are often less highly educated and qualified than doctors, lawyers, and engineers, and they arguably contribute less to the working of society, but they are paid more than the learned professions because the market says so.
The 'learned professions'. What a misnomer that is.

The fact is that many of those 'professions' are highly paid because the markets are manipulated and controlled by the so called professionals. It isn't the market 'saying so'.
You have no idea what you are talking about. My clients are banks and big companies. They are highly sophisticated consumers of services and they certainly do not pay fees that are "manipulated and controlled" by lawyers. There is intense competition and they pay what they consider to be the right amount to get the best advice.

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