Bentley back to Le Mans? Continental GT3 unveiled
Discussion
Well, they make a point of saying it will be eligible for 24H events...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102870
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102870
richard_abra said:
Most GT2 cars are GT3 cars just with different BOP, this could easily get a GT2 homologation, im sure we will see it at LeMans 2013.
Err no they aren't - not even close - GTE cars have an entirely different set of technical regulations to GT3s (which actually have remarkably few technical regs) - Conversion for some is technically possible but not simple and not cheap.For instance - Aston Vantage GTE is a bespoke chassis and a V8 engine - Aston GT3 is based on road car chassis but with major structural changes, a longer wheelbase (from memory c. 6 inches longer) and a V12 - Aero packages, fuel cell position ands electronics are all different.
I note that McLaren are readying a car for GTE racing now. Looks like customers will be at Le Mans in 2014.
I don't think the challenge of GT racing should be underestimated, look at how tough Jaguar had it in ALMS and Lotus at LM last year.
For me, the major surprise is that Bentley has taken the project in-house, rather than employing a known entity like RML to do it.
I don't think the challenge of GT racing should be underestimated, look at how tough Jaguar had it in ALMS and Lotus at LM last year.
For me, the major surprise is that Bentley has taken the project in-house, rather than employing a known entity like RML to do it.
GrahamG said:
richard_abra said:
Most GT2 cars are GT3 cars just with different BOP, this could easily get a GT2 homologation, im sure we will see it at LeMans 2013.
Err no they aren't - not even close - GTE cars have an entirely different set of technical regulations to GT3s (which actually have remarkably few technical regs) - Conversion for some is technically possible but not simple and not cheap.For instance - Aston Vantage GTE is a bespoke chassis and a V8 engine - Aston GT3 is based on road car chassis but with major structural changes, a longer wheelbase (from memory c. 6 inches longer) and a V12 - Aero packages, fuel cell position ands electronics are all different.
The Macca will be much the same as the GT3 car, what else needs to change? GTE is no faster
Edited by richard_abra on Wednesday 3rd October 23:20
richard_abra said:
Graham, please i have just brought a GT3 Vantage... the GTE car is very similar, the GT3 car is just everything they have learnt and using up to date electronics etc.. much like all the other GTE cars, they are very close to the GT3 cars, Regs are different of course they are otherwise they would be in the same class... but Bentley will be able to get a GTE Homologation for this with very little change from the GT3 car, it works for both the FIA and the Manufactures.
The Macca will be much the same as the GT3 car, what else needs to change? GTE is no faster
Having worked as a race engineer on a broad variety of GT2 and GT3 cars, I'll interject and say that most GT3 homologated cars are very different to GT2s.The Macca will be much the same as the GT3 car, what else needs to change? GTE is no faster
The Aston differences between GT2 and GT3 are pretty huge - V8 vs V12, considerably different wheelbase etc.
The 458 Ferraris are totally different: the GT2 has proper tubular wishbones, fabricated uprights, different ARBs, 5-way dampers, much lower engine mountings, different cage, rear wheel size and obviously a completely different engine design to work with restrictors.
Porsche's offerings also have big differences - track width being the obvious one...
The differences in the regulations are stark. A GT3 car is not built to specific rules as such. You build a car with as much tech in it as you can squeeze and as much reliable power as possible, then you submit it for the balance of performance. You then sell it for a set maximum price (which used to be €380k, but may have changed). Some GT3s still have things like road car based wiring looms, which would never be seen in a GT2 car. A GT2 is built to clearly defined technical regulations, with rules governing how much the suspension may be modified, wing size, splitter length, tiny restrictors etc, etc, etc. And no ABS.
I referred to a rough €380k price point in the last paragraph. As a comparison a quote I received for a GT2 Corvette a couple of years ago (the proper Pratt and Miller one) came in at $1m (around €750k) with a small spares package.
The reason GT3s are often quicker than GT2s these days is down to two things: power and downforce. Most GT3s have 100-150PS more than GT2s. They also have hoofing great wings because they have enough power to overcome the drag and the lack of aero regulations means they can fit what they want. If you fitted a GT3 car with GT2 wings, splitters and power the lap times would fall off a cliff.
richard_abra said:
Graham, please i have just brought a GT3 Vantage... the GTE car is very similar, the GT3 car is just everything they have learnt and using up to date electronics etc.. much like all the other GTE cars, they are very close to the GT3 cars, Regs are different of course they are otherwise they would be in the same class... but Bentley will be able to get a GTE Homologation for this with very little change from the GT3 car, it works for both the FIA and the Manufactures.
The Macca will be much the same as the GT3 car, what else needs to change? GTE is no faster
Richard - There might be elements and components that are similar but that's (in the vast majority of cases) where it ends - What you have in GTE is, (as Ahonen says above) the net result of a very tight set of regs - tighter still nowadays to allow the new generation of LMP2s to comfortably pass on a straight. There is potential in every GTE car for a VERY fast piece of kit indeed evidenced by what the Aston has achieved this year after being allowed to breathe a little more easily and being given pretty dramatically better aero - much closer to a GT3 package than before.The Macca will be much the same as the GT3 car, what else needs to change? GTE is no faster
Edited by richard_abra on Wednesday 3rd October 23:20
His description of the GT3 concept of regulation is even better - It's not a criticism but an observation - The reality is that its high time we had one classification covering the whole lot - It's nonsense that we have two essentially similar looking cars from the same marques that are broadly equal on pace but yet, for the ,most part, can't race directly against each other.
I can recall a year or so ago looking at some data that showed that GT3 cars, around Spa if I recall correctly, are now 6-7 seconds a lap faster than 6 years ago - that's a mark of how rapidly the GT3s have been allowed to escalate the performance levels - They are fabulous things (Particularly your Aston Richard which is stunning) but they aren't a GTE car.
looks like it could be possible for the Bentley to run judging by this taken off autosport. hopefully they can move it forward from its 2015 date.
The FIA and the Automobile Club de l'Ouest at Le Mans have revealed that they intend to create one GT division instead of the two categories that currently exist.
They want a class that has a concrete rulebook like GTE, but with the reduced costs of GT3.
ACO sporting manager Vincent Beaumesnil said: "The GT manufacturers support the GTE regulations, but it is clear at the same time that GT3 is a great success. It has been decided together by the FIA to establish a working group with all the manufacturers involved in GT racing to create a single category worldwide.
"We have three main targets: to keep the technical credibility of GTE; to achieve the reduced costs of GT3; and to allow the manufacturers to develop one car rather than the two that they have to today."
The FIA would not be drawn on a firm timescale ahead of the first meeting of the working group in November. Beaumesnil said that the rules could be announced as early as the Le Mans 24 Hours next June, but that the category would not come into force until one complete season after that, meaning 2015.
The FIA and the Automobile Club de l'Ouest at Le Mans have revealed that they intend to create one GT division instead of the two categories that currently exist.
They want a class that has a concrete rulebook like GTE, but with the reduced costs of GT3.
ACO sporting manager Vincent Beaumesnil said: "The GT manufacturers support the GTE regulations, but it is clear at the same time that GT3 is a great success. It has been decided together by the FIA to establish a working group with all the manufacturers involved in GT racing to create a single category worldwide.
"We have three main targets: to keep the technical credibility of GTE; to achieve the reduced costs of GT3; and to allow the manufacturers to develop one car rather than the two that they have to today."
The FIA would not be drawn on a firm timescale ahead of the first meeting of the working group in November. Beaumesnil said that the rules could be announced as early as the Le Mans 24 Hours next June, but that the category would not come into force until one complete season after that, meaning 2015.
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