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Stewart330ci
145 posts
19 months
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I have worked in sales and have always out performed my 'educated' colleagues. Dunno how getting lashed up for 3 years would make them better at a job i got into 3 years before them.
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Donatello
1,034 posts
30 months
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Sorry it is slightly off topic, but as others have said, what exactly is the obsession with graduates for entry level jobs?
I don't have a degree but I have gained 5 years of work experience in customer service/sales roles and I'm only 22. Surely I would be more use to these employers than a graduate who may never have worked a day in their life?
Sorry, just something that really annoys me.
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GoneAnon
902 posts
21 months
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When I was young we had an undergraduate come to us for summer work experience ahead of his honours year.
Every Monday for 6 weeks he watered the plastic plants as instructed til the water was slopping out of the top of the pot.
Seems strange to look back now and think that there are so many jobs that he would be considered for that I would be excluded from because he had a bit of paper and I only had experience(and some demonstrable success in the role).
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CBR JGWRR
5,074 posts
18 months
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If it pays more than 8k a year and can wait 2 years for me to finish my degree I'll take it.
I suspect the middle bit rules me out though...
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Arenki
188 posts
38 months
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Stewart330ci said: I have worked in sales and have always out performed my 'educated' colleagues. Dunno how getting lashed up for 3 years would make them better at a job i got into 3 years before them. You and me both. Found out the new guy is on the best part of 4k p/a basic more than me. Same age, just has a degree. Wouldn't mind but in the 3 months he's been here he's still absolutely useless!
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blueheron
363 posts
14 months
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Customer Services... Sales/Marketing..
Be honest. What is the actual job. Telesales?
Most graduates will be looking to move into a job actually relevant to their field of study. Any you do employ will likely only use you as a stopgap until they find something relevant.
Too many young people who would make decent workers, are automatically ruled out because they don't have that magic degree certificate. They're not all thick!
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bunyarra
162 posts
81 months
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blueheron said: Too many young people who would make decent workers, are automatically ruled out because they don't have that magic degree certificate. They're not all thick! You'd think that. Over the last year, and in 3-4 different vacancies, we have had 8 people not even bother to show up to an interview. Of these, all 8 were under 20. One responded that he decided not to work as he made enough unemployed to keep him happy. And these were not min wage job with no prospects. The older applicants have, almost universally, been of a measurably higher standard all round. As for graduates (and in my experience these last few years) I don't think the current crop are any better than those who grafted in work for the 3 years rather than did a degree. We've certainly not seem a significant difference in ability, attitude or commitment. Graduate or not, there is just a bleeding awful "rights" culture from everyone entering work. "I've a right to a job" ; "I've a right to sue you if I stub my toe", "I've a right to be paid loads even though I am utterly useless", "I've a right to not come in and you can't do anything about it" .... etc. Case in point, some little oik has taken us to a tribunal after 3 weeks "work". We sacked him due to utter incompetence but a ambulance-chasing, snake-oil solicitor is trying to exhort ££ out us in the hope we see a payout as cheaper than the hassle of a tribunal. Even ACAS went WTF?
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NormalWisdom
926 posts
28 months
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My partner's daughter is a 2-1 graduate (history of art). She wants a career in fine art (curator or somesuch). After more than a year of volunteering at various auction houses and museums around the country (unpaid) and not securing paid work she is losing a lot of confidence. She literally will do anything - Now she is living down here with us (was originally near Chester) and working as a kitchen assistant in a school canteen getting paid c£6 an hour. She was even turned down for an interview at that school for a post as teaching assistant in the Arts department despite having glowing references from a school where she did similar voluntarily.
My fear is that continuous knock-backs really do serious damage to her and people in her position. Confidence is eroded and feelings of low-self worth start and grow.
She really will do (and is very capable of) anything but confidence is now a factor and I don't know how you fix that....
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jamieduff1981
710 posts
9 months
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We must be living in a bubble here because we’re always looking for graduates and experienced professionals. Those without degrees are basically useless to us because as an engineering company our employees are required to have a level of technical understanding that you only get from university. Some of our project controls people don’t need degrees, but those who do have degrees in management etc are of little more use than those without degrees. The best of our project controls people are those with a technical and management qualification to their name, as you might expect.
In general in our industry, the value of experience starts to wear off above around the mid-late 40s as our personnel get financially too comfortable and frankly lazy. Our best people are generally in their 30s – enough experience to stand on their own two feet, but still young and hungry enough to care.
Study something useful (like engineering) and you can’t go wrong really. I’d always prefer a graduate to a school leaver all else being equal, but some degree courses are pretty useless. What university does teach however is resourcefulness. A graduate will generally be able to work out where to look for information than a school leaver, because irrespective of the course subject, that’s what all degrees have in common.
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GroundEffect
7,183 posts
25 months
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NormalWisdom said: My partner's daughter is a 2-1 graduate (history of art). She wants a career in fine art (curator or somesuch). After more than a year of volunteering at various auction houses and museums around the country (unpaid) and not securing paid work she is losing a lot of confidence. She literally will do anything - Now she is living down here with us (was originally near Chester) and working as a kitchen assistant in a school canteen getting paid c£6 an hour. She was even turned down for an interview at that school for a post as teaching assistant in the Arts department despite having glowing references from a school where she did similar voluntarily.
My fear is that continuous knock-backs really do serious damage to her and people in her position. Confidence is eroded and feelings of low-self worth start and grow.
She really will do (and is very capable of) anything but confidence is now a factor and I don't know how you fix that.... It took me two years to land a decent job and literally hundreds of rejections...and that was with a sought after degree (Masters in Aero engineering). You just need to keep at it and whilst I was close to giving up I realised that there were so many people in the same situation and they hadn't given up so I couldn't afford to.
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Lazygraduate
1,508 posts
30 months
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There’s a substantial difference between the motivated, intelligent graduates who have their pick of graduate jobs (maybe 25% of graduates?) who would be approximately the same number in total as those who went to university thirty years ago, and the 75% of graduates who are there for the boozing and study media studies with history of Beckham studies who subsequently scrabble for the dishwashing job at the Red Lion. I wish people wouldn’t tar them all with the same brush.
There, got that off my chest
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Donatello
1,034 posts
30 months
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Lazygraduate said: There’s a substantial difference between the motivated, intelligent graduates who have their pick of graduate jobs (maybe 25% of graduates?) who would be approximately the same number in total as those who went to university thirty years ago, and the 75% of graduates who are there for the boozing and study media studies with history of Beckham studies who subsequently scrabble for the dishwashing job at the Red Lion. I wish people wouldn’t tar them all with the same brush.
There, got that off my chest I understand that. I know from family members who have been to uni and worked bloody hard to get where they are, that there are some very hard working people with degrees. I know you weren't replying to my post at the top of the page but I felt I would clarify my original post. I applied for a job a couple of months back (no mention of required education level) in a fairly low level position but it would have been a platform for me. I got a call to tell me that I had been unsuccessful as they were looking for graduates. To my amazement, a friend on Facebook got the job after the interview process. He has a degree, is a lazy gobs  te who had 1 part time job at the age of 18 when we went to college together and lasted about 2 months. He hasn't worked other than the 2 months above, he hasn't any experience in a working environment and he got the job because he had a degree. How does that make any sense from an employers point of view?
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DCS01
270 posts
51 months
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All a degree tells me is that the holder is surposed to be able to read and write a bit better than the average. Unless engineering,chemistry or Physics.
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extraT
399 posts
19 months
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You're in Luton and you dont know of The University of Bedfordshire (formerly Uni. of Luton), on Park Street, Luton??!!! www.beds.ac.uk get in touch with their student union.
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stemll
1,507 posts
69 months
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extraT said: You're in Luton and you dont know of The University of Bedfordshire (formerly Uni. of Luton), on Park Street, Luton??!!! www.beds.ac.uk get in touch with their student union. Or "Luton College" as it was when I went there to do my HNC.
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joema
590 posts
48 months
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NormalWisdom said: My partner's daughter is a 2-1 graduate (history of art). She wants a career in fine art (curator or somesuch). After more than a year of volunteering at various auction houses and museums around the country (unpaid) and not securing paid work she is losing a lot of confidence. She literally will do anything - Now she is living down here with us (was originally near Chester) and working as a kitchen assistant in a school canteen getting paid c£6 an hour. She was even turned down for an interview at that school for a post as teaching assistant in the Arts department despite having glowing references from a school where she did similar voluntarily.
My fear is that continuous knock-backs really do serious damage to her and people in her position. Confidence is eroded and feelings of low-self worth start and grow.
She really will do (and is very capable of) anything but confidence is now a factor and I don't know how you fix that.... Is there any chance of some careers guidance, cv writing, interview help from somewhere? Maybe her uni careers? Can you help run over job apps with her? Or someone else? It is harsh out in the market right now. So often there are just a lot of people all after one job. High volumes of applications can work in theory. . But making sure the role is right and that they're written very well and tailored to the role will likely work far better. From my experience some employers have been reluctant with graduates applying for jobs not needing a degree. Partly because there's a good chance it's a stop gap or not actually what the applicant wants to do. I hope it turns out ok.
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crofty1984
9,876 posts
73 months
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z4chris99 said: hyperblue said: I guess you've calculated that you'll earn more than £50k more than you would without a degree over your lifetime? Bargain indeed. well i haven't finished the masters yet as am doing it PT, but i suspect ill earn back the outlay in a year or two as soon as i move job.. You may be in for a surprise.
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blueheron
363 posts
14 months
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crofty1984 said: z4chris99 said: hyperblue said: I guess you've calculated that you'll earn more than £50k more than you would without a degree over your lifetime? Bargain indeed. well i haven't finished the masters yet as am doing it PT, but i suspect ill earn back the outlay in a year or two as soon as i move job.. You may be in for a surprise. This. Please don't delude yourself and be prepared for a potentially rough ride.
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Carl_Docklands
2,036 posts
131 months
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einsign said: We would like to take on and train a couple of graduates in customer services and sales/marketing roles.
Where is the best place to search for such people, is there a student job forum or such like?
They would be located at a site in Luton if it helps. Thanks. Try City Gateway. They might not be able to help directly but would point you in the right direction. http://www.standard.co.uk/news/work/take-on-an-app...
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revvedup
35 posts
40 months
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