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VX Foxy

3,508 posts

129 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
I'm with decadence; that final race was a joke, a circus. WWF for cars. I can see the appeal of P1ATO - he and Matt make for exciting racing - but that should not be possible without some kind of force majeur.

Great drive from JP? bks.

supraboy

244 posts

70 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
My first ever BTCC event, sat in the crowds and I could believe how many people were cheering for Plato! Near enough everyone was behind him!

fatboy69

6,231 posts

73 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
I didnt see the third race however I would have thought that going from 19th to 1st is a good race for anyone in any category.

Whilst I'm not the greatest Plato fan I don't understand the hatred some people have for him. He wins races on a regular basis so he can't be tha bad can he?

I know he moans a lot but so does that tall fool in the Honda & I don't see the same amount of hatred being directed towards him even though he is just as bad, if not worse, at times.

I wish they would all STFU, watch Bathurst & learn something.

I also wish that the BTCC cars were all rear wheel drive with big fat 5 litre V8's in the front.........

But we all that that won't happen either dont we?




decadence

502 posts

44 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
smartypants said:
decadence said:
Fords are VERY different, I'd do more research in the current BTCC chap.
As for the Neate comparison it dosen't wash as Neate can qualify much higher than he deserves due to that car, the reason he bums up is cause he has poor race craft and trips over himself and others, in slight defence the team is aimed at Plato and in first half of season 888 went as far as to say Neates car was less develope than Platos..
And we're all cars to be equal Neate would be at the back and Plato would be at the front with Neal Sheddon etc etc in a proper fair race... Plato is awesome but not as awesome as race 3 made him look... it was a bit stupid. It was a white wash and in a sport that seems obsessed with 'equalisation' a car shouldn't be able to that cause clearly the 888 could of been pegged back abit as it wasn't equal... then Plato can claim its the chassis but we know it's the boost.. it's a con.
I think you're being a bit harsh... Plato's car was actually one of the slowest through the traps of the front runners. It's taken all season, but 888 have done bloody good things with the car.

You'll have to find it in your heart to give Plato and the team some credit wink
Did you read the bit where I said Plato is 'awesome'?
I think he is a great driver / racer . But that dosent excuse hypocrisy which is my pet hate. I as a BTCC fan and not just a fan of one driver like some people, I just want to see as fair a race as possible, there will always be a better car it's Motorsport it's as much car as driver and some have based whole careers off being in the best car at all times, Plato had this in the SEAT and the Chevy before NGTC came in. I know that my beloved Alfa Romeo did some damage in 1994 with the downforce add ons, it's racing it happens but the boost thing is just so... rubbish, you can with the simple boost change be a hero or a zero, hardest part is trying to decifer who actually is good now. I mean is Welch good is is that his boost? there are some givens out there like today Sheddon should not have been struggling to fend off Fuller in his Sheddons old civic from last year ! the top guys out there are driving the cars to the cars limits, so any extra boost will result in them getting further up field... it's just a mess I think. I agree with an earlier post, I wish the turbo thing never happened in BTCC.

decadence

502 posts

44 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
fatboy69 said:
I didnt see the third race however I would have thought that going from 19th to 1st is a good race for anyone in any category.

Whilst I'm not the greatest Plato fan I don't understand the hatred some people have for him. He wins races on a regular basis so he can't be tha bad can he?

I know he moans a lot but so does that tall fool in the Honda & I don't see the same amount of hatred being directed towards him even though he is just as bad, if not worse, at times.

I wish they would all STFU, watch Bathurst & learn something.

I also wish that the BTCC cars were all rear wheel drive with big fat 5 litre V8's in the front.........

But we all that that won't happen either dont we?
It's quite simple really. When Arron Smith was battling with Plato at knockhill Plato said words to the effect that suggested that Smith was only there due to unfair and wrong boost levels.... when Plato walks it from 20th to 1st today, then it's cause he's the worlds greatest driver...that I find unfair about Plato..

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fatboy69

6,231 posts

73 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
The Plato hatred has been going on for years. As for today's race - I didn't see it & I only knew that won the last race. I haven't said he is the worlds greatest driver.


MGJohn

8,460 posts

69 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
fatboy69 said:
I didnt see the third race however I would have thought that going from 19th to 1st is a good race for anyone in any category.

Whilst I'm not the greatest Plato fan I don't understand the hatred some people have for him. He wins races on a regular basis so he can't be tha bad can he?

I know he moans a lot but so does that tall fool in the Honda & I don't see the same amount of hatred being directed towards him even though he is just as bad, if not worse, at times.

I wish they would all STFU, watch Bathurst & learn something.

I also wish that the BTCC cars were all rear wheel drive with big fat 5 litre V8's in the front.........

But we all that that won't happen either dont we?
How old are you Fatboy 1969 maybe ... still a child in my books .. smile ?

Fatboy .. were you around in the early 1980s when the big Rover V8s were in action ? ... better still when Clark in his Lotus Cortina and others mixed it with the Big Bad Boy Ford Falcons in the 1960s.

Youngsters today don't know theyze born ... and you could do the ton plus on many UK roads all quite legally.

Back on topic ...

I missed much of today's BTCC action on TV. How did Pluto get on in that bad boy overboosted GM ?

Any good ? ... wink


fatboy69

6,231 posts

73 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Still a child? Shows just how little you know MGJ.

Not sure what your point is as your ramblings don't always make sense. Quite obvious you are no fan of JP so I guess the equal stupidity of the lanky Hondadriver is more your style.

I have already said that I not JP's biggest fan & have also said I didn't see the third race today - or the first for that matter.

Just for the record - I am old enough to remember the BTCC in its glory days & I can well recall the Cleland, Soper, Harvey battles not to mention many years of racing before that.

Today's 'battles' are child's play compared to what went on between the Vauxhalls, BMW's & Toyota's all those years ago......


Oh yeah - one other thing. I was around when the Rover V8's etc were racing as my team managed to beat a certain works supported team to the British Saloon Car Championship two years on the trot.

Try as they did, by fair means or foul, they couldn't beat us to the title. Only time they managed to beat us 'fair & square' was when we ran the same cars as they did...

Turned out that their cars were 'different' to ours (details of which I will not under any circumstances go into on here) hence we got beaten.

So yes I was around in the halcyon days of Saloon Car racing.




Edited by fatboy69 on Monday 8th October 00:18

IainW

1,594 posts

61 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
fatboy69 said:
I also wish that the BTCC cars were all rear wheel drive with big fat 5 litre V8's in the front.........
I was thinking when watching last night, wouldn't it have been nice to have a similar Car Of The Future concept over here? Maybe not V8s, but at least 6-cylinder engines. Plenty of mass-produced cars with that sort of engine. I don't like the turbos at all. At least a WRC turbo sounds good, these things are bloody awful to listen to.

Wh00sher

711 posts

104 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
VX Foxy said:
I'm with decadence; that final race was a joke, a circus. WWF for cars. I can see the appeal of P1ATO - he and Matt make for exciting racing - but that should not be possible without some kind of force majeur.

Great drive from JP? bks.
How come his teammate didn`t do as well then ? Same car, no ballast.

I`m not a fan of only one driver, I just enjoy close racing, whoever wins.

smartypants

22,016 posts

55 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
I think people get too hung up about who wins, was it fair, was it the car was it the driver. What really matters, is was it entertaining? Watching Plato drive through the pack on the last race was entertaining, same as when Jackson did it in the Focus. All Plato's passes were done through the corners, not just boosting down the straights - isn't that what people want to see?

fatboy69

6,231 posts

73 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
smartypants said:
I think people get too hung up about who wins, was it fair, was it the car was it the driver. What really matters, is was it entertaining? Watching Plato drive through the pack on the last race was entertaining, same as when Jackson did it in the Focus. All Plato's passes were done through the corners, not just boosting down the straights - isn't that what people want to see?
Only, it would seem, if anyone apart from Plato wins!!! Had Neal won the last race from the back of the grid it would have been feted as a great drive. However because Plato did it Everyone slags him off.

As I have said before the simple way to stop the lot of them bhing about 'he's got more turbo boost than me, he's got less ballast than me, he won I didn't so it's not fair' etc etc is to make all the cars the same.

5 litre rear wheel drive V8's. No turbos, no stupid NGTC cars, no ballast if you win. Just 24 identical cars.

That way they can all race on equal terms, the best driver in the day walks away with the trophies & grown men on PH can stop squabbling over whether or not they love or loathe Plato.

Quite frankly the bhing is starting to fk me off. We all have own preferred drivers & no one is going to agree as to who is the best unless or until everyone is on a level playing field.

We face another two weeks of petty argumennts before Brands Hatch & after that the bhing will carry on!!

What are we trying to do? Match the 111 pages on whether Lewis did the right thing b signing for Mercedes? Frankly, IMO, he fked up however it's up to him.

So let's stop the bhing, the mud slinging, the arguments & let's look forward to Brands Hatch. It is, after all,the drivers favourite race because it is on the Grand Prix circuit.

Personally I can't wait & I honestly don't give a toss who wins & who losses. It doesn't really matter does it? Not when you compare it to what the family of that poor girl in Wales are going through at the moment.........

decadence

502 posts

44 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
smartypants said:
I think people get too hung up about who wins, was it fair, was it the car was it the driver. What really matters, is was it entertaining? Watching Plato drive through the pack on the last race was entertaining, same as when Jackson did it in the Focus. All Plato's passes were done through the corners, not just boosting down the straights - isn't that what people want to see?
they were done boosting out of the corners, it's still a track race it's not drag racing, we are hung up on this stringy line speed thing, the problem with turbo is that if you have more boost it can drag you out of the corners faster, before it was important to build a cracking chassis to do this like the awesome chevy cruze and the civic naturally has. Basically Plato is doing the PR very well at Solverstone for 888 MG but truth is its not the chassis that made all that happen it was the boost. The Hondas are pegged back due to having the best chassis and package.
I think if a team can gain an advantage within the rules then fair play, but when it's just a case of turning up the boost where's the team skill? I hate these turbos... i still don't get why they can't all get same boost? I mean it was hardly a show of equalisation at work yesterday . same boost level for all cars and go fight.
by rights at BH the MG should be pegged well back but it won't.

a quick one about Neate and Plato again.

Neate should be qualifying around last place so the fact he is in the MG means he qualifies higher up than his skill merits. He's not even close to being Platos standard hence why he can't win in it. If Paul O'neal had raced that MG it would of been a 1-2 for MG I'd wager..

fatboy69

6,231 posts

73 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
I agree with one thing that Decadence says - I also hate the turbos. As he says either give everyone the same boost or, better still, get rid of the fking things!

decadence

502 posts

44 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
fatboy69 said:
smartypants said:
I think people get too hung up about who wins, was it fair, was it the car was it the driver. What really matters, is was it entertaining? Watching Plato drive through the pack on the last race was entertaining, same as when Jackson did it in the Focus. All Plato's passes were done through the corners, not just boosting down the straights - isn't that what people want to see?
Only, it would seem, if anyone apart from Plato wins!!! Had Neal won the last race from the back of the grid it would have been feted as a great drive. However because Plato did it Everyone slags him off.

As I have said before the simple way to stop the lot of them bhing about 'he's got more turbo boost than me, he's got less ballast than me, he won I didn't so it's not fair' etc etc is to make all the cars the same.

5 litre rear wheel drive V8's. No turbos, no stupid NGTC cars, no ballast if you win. Just 24 identical cars.

That way they can all race on equal terms, the best driver in the day walks away with the trophies & grown men on PH can stop squabbling over whether or not they love or loathe Plato.

Quite frankly the bhing is starting to fk me off. We all have own preferred drivers & no one is going to agree as to who is the best unless or until everyone is on a level playing field.

We face another two weeks of petty argumennts before Brands Hatch & after that the bhing will carry on!!

What are we trying to do? Match the 111 pages on whether Lewis did the right thing b signing for Mercedes? Frankly, IMO, he fked up however it's up to him.

So let's stop the bhing, the mud slinging, the arguments & let's look forward to Brands Hatch. It is, after all,the drivers favourite race because it is on the Grand Prix circuit.

Personally I can't wait & I honestly don't give a toss who wins & who losses. It doesn't really matter does it? Not when you compare it to what the family of that poor girl in Wales are going through at the moment.........
I agree with you, but had Neal done what Plato did I'd be saying it was wrong. What we should have is top drivers fighting for the win every race , what we got at silverstone was Alan Gow making sure it went to BH.
as a fan that's wrong, it's almost WWF..

smartypants

22,016 posts

55 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
I agree with a lot of the above - Plato is a fantastic marketing machine. But don't forget Triple 8 are one of the best in the business in building great cars for the BTCC, they've been doing it a long while.

And I agree with the turbos - all this boost change and weight changes makes it bloody complicated for the viewer to really understand who is quick and who is not. Plus you get the same old arguments every week.


The Wookie

10,031 posts

114 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Can I just reinforce what has been said about Neate. After a pretty trying weekend struggling for straight line speed and reliability we finally got the car well sorted for Race 3. It was still more or less at the bottom of the speed traps (which were were 10mph off in Quali) at the end but at least we got it close enough so I could race.

I made up a good few places off the start and the first lap, only to have Neate turn left in the middle of Luffield when I was on the outside, despite the fact that I was actually in front of him. He hit me hard enough that he ended up driving onto the grass having driven 'through' me.

I ended up right at the back again and will now likely have a bill for 6 or 7 grand to fix the now concave passenger side of the Golf. Pocket money for him, but that's a serious wedge of cash for us, in fact it's more than 3 months salary for me personally.

It was clearly 'I'm not having the fking Golf take me on the outside, so I'm going to have him off'. Regardless of whether he's earned the cash to drive that car, he is dangerous.

fatboy69

6,231 posts

73 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Let's be honest - nothing is quite as bad as WWF!

The bhing, the shunting, the nudging, the crap driving has to stop so maybe the only way to do that is to make all the cars essentially the same.

Compare, if you dare, the BTCC to Bathurst..... You can't because in Aus they race near identical cars without any of the crap we get over here.

No bhing about bigger turbo boost etc etc. no shoving each off at every opportunity. They race hard & they race fair.

Let's think for a minute - three BTCC races or one Bathurst race....... I know which I prefer.

Having said that I am looking forward to Brands Hatch.

REALIST123

3,870 posts

39 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Wh00sher said:
VX Foxy said:
I'm with decadence; that final race was a joke, a circus. WWF for cars. I can see the appeal of P1ATO - he and Matt make for exciting racing - but that should not be possible without some kind of force majeur.

Great drive from JP? bks.
How come his teammate didn`t do as well then ? Same car, no ballast.

I`m not a fan of only one driver, I just enjoy close racing, whoever wins.
Asking that question just reinforces the argument.

A monkey could have won in that car yesterday, some say it did.

Now if that implies that Neate has less ability than the average simian...........well, the truth hurts sometimes.

One other thing that shouldn't be forgotten is that a good piece of this field are little more than average club drivers. It isn't difficult for the likes of Plato, Neal, Sheddon etc to always get to the front, given the car. They are clearly above average club drivers.


LiamM45

1,018 posts

66 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
I wish they would just let all the cars run the same boost pressure then get on with it.
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