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Pwig
11,026 posts
139 months
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ajprice
7,221 posts
65 months
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andy_s
8,467 posts
128 months
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ajprice
7,221 posts
65 months
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andy_s said: From that wiki list ill take a guess at Damien Rice.
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vonuber
3,897 posts
34 months
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CiderwithCerbie said: So was the Wermacht and friends (in the first half) - doesn't make what they were doing behind the scenes any better though does it? What are you on about. I assume you mean Wehrmacht? What the hell as that got to do with F1?
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Richard-G
1,090 posts
44 months
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Pwig said: AWOLnation 'sail'
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Dr Z
775 posts
40 months
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I quite enjoyed this GP. Kamui! Kamui! Where were you all season? Would love to have seen him in the second Mclaren. If he'd shown some of this form earlier in the season, who knows? Brilliant drive by Vettel. The man is the best when he's out in front. I laughed when he put in the fast lap at the end with his race engineer asking him to be careful and he's about 20 secs clear of the next guy. I really loved the interview later on with the Beeb where he said that he ought to enjoy when the car is this good! Kudos! Massa- wow, I hope he really kicks on from now. Much of this sport is psychological as much as the physical. TBH, I really enjoyed watching him race in the previous GP. He was really attacking those kerbs like his life depended on it. So much commitment. Really glad he has something to show for it this race. Whoever wins the WDC this year from now on, will be a worthy Champion, for sure. `(there it is that phrase again!) 
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Wanta996Gotta
5,452 posts
76 months
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Jasandjules
45,377 posts
98 months
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Dr Z said: I laughed when he put in the fast lap at the end with his race engineer asking him to be careful and he's about 20 secs clear of the next guy. I really loved the interview later on with the Beeb where he said that he ought to enjoy when the car is this good! Kudos! Yes he is great like that. I think there were several earlier messages too - basically they were saying "slow the f**k down", then he put in the next fastest lap....... I remember a race before as well when he was out in front and the radio call "who has the fastest lap?" - Horner's reponse? "Don't even think about it"... 
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HarryW
11,306 posts
138 months
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Wanta996Gotta said: To me the fact that the pit wall did not even consider JB relinquishing the spot with say half a lap to go, allowing LH an additional 2 points, at no detriment to the constructors points highlights the lack of tactical thinking the team has demonstrated all season.
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zac510
4,958 posts
75 months
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Scuffers said: like to think your wrong, but I would suggest it's Vettel's to lose now... How can it be his to lose? He's not even in the lead!
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Scuffers
10,408 posts
143 months
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zac510 said: Scuffers said: like to think your wrong, but I would suggest it's Vettel's to lose now... How can it be his to lose? He's not even in the lead! easy, Ferrari's pace compared to RB is laughable.... they have said themselves that their cars is not fast enough (wind tunnel issues?)
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CiderwithCerbie
1,419 posts
136 months
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vonuber said: What are you on about. I assume you mean Wehrmacht? What the hell as that got to do with F1? Do I have to spell it out for you? (and before anyone else posts - that's ajoke at my own expense...) Derek said Ferrari were a great team, SeeFive quoted from Fawlty Towers 'The Germans' about not mentioning the war and so... All I was pointing out was that 'being a great team' and winning does not always stand up to more detailed scrutiny of what is going on behind the scenes or how the winning is achieved and at what cost.
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vonuber
3,897 posts
34 months
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HarryW said: To me the fact that the pit wall did not even consider JB relinquishing the spot with say half a lap to go, allowing LH an additional 2 points, at no detriment to the constructors points highlights the lack of tactical thinking the team has demonstrated all season. What if Kobi had made a mistake into the final chicane handing Button the podium?
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HarryW
11,306 posts
138 months
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vonuber said: HarryW said: To me the fact that the pit wall did not even consider JB relinquishing the spot with say half a lap to go, allowing LH an additional 2 points, at no detriment to the constructors points highlights the lack of tactical thinking the team has demonstrated all season. What if Kobi had made a mistake into the final chicane handing Button the podium? That is always possible, but it is not tactical thinking. It is and was a wing and a prayer thinking, a 'what if' scenario. You don't see many drop it on the last corner do you. By all means let JB chase him down, as he did, but the better result for the team and driver titles was to let them finish the other way around. Balancing up the probabilities and likely outcome is part of the tactical thinking process, McL have proved again they are devoid in that area. The bigger question I have is who is supposed to do the tactics, is it the Chief engineer, the Principle or do they have a tactician.
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MGJohn
6,643 posts
52 months
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HarryW said: vonuber said: HarryW said: To me the fact that the pit wall did not even consider JB relinquishing the spot with say half a lap to go, allowing LH an additional 2 points, at no detriment to the constructors points highlights the lack of tactical thinking the team has demonstrated all season. What if Kobi had made a mistake into the final chicane handing Button the podium? That is always possible, but it is not tactical thinking. It is and was a wing and a prayer thinking, a 'what if' scenario. You don't see many drop it on the last corner do you. By all means let JB chase him down, as he did, but the better result for the team and driver titles was to let them finish the other way around. Balancing up the probabilities and likely outcome is part of the tactical thinking process, McL have proved again they are devoid in that area. The bigger question I have is who is supposed to do the tactics, is it the Chief engineer, the Principle or do they have a tactician. 20-20 Wisdom after the event. Until they ran out of laps, there was a chance for Button to recapture a podium spot. Despite the hype that the Mclarens have the faster car, both the two cars in front of Button who at the time was well clear of his team mate, would on performance be very difficult to pass on any track, let alone Suzuka. Even so, it was worth a try because earlier it was apparently decided by the team that Hamilton had no chance of catching and passing the cars in front whilst Button looked like that would have been possible. For a lap or two later it looked like it might work too. All this from my armchair of course and thus not in possession of all the facts. It amazes me how so many teams when deciding when to pit their cars for fresh tyres, the drivers are called in at a time that means they will rejoin behind slower cars. Mclaren in recent seasons have really excelled at this although other teams have also occasionally done this but never as frequently as Mclaren seem to do.
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Bedazzled
4,043 posts
90 months
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HarryW said: To me the fact that the pit wall did not even consider JB relinquishing the spot with say half a lap to go, allowing LH an additional 2 points, at no detriment to the constructors points highlights the lack of tactical thinking the team has demonstrated all season. Whitmarsh said before the race any swap-over is at the discretion of Jenson not the pit wall, and he's unlikely to give up the spot when he's fighting over a podium place. Lewis has been pretty clear he doesn't want team orders too.
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oyster
5,205 posts
117 months
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HarryW said: Wanta996Gotta said: To me the fact that the pit wall did not even consider JB relinquishing the spot with say half a lap to go, allowing LH an additional 2 points, at no detriment to the constructors points highlights the lack of tactical thinking the team has demonstrated all season. The gap in points between HAM and BUT isn't big enough with 5 remaining races to do this. Imagine the scenario should Button have a good run in the final 5 races of the season and end up losing the title by 1 point to Vettel or Alonso after having given up 4th place to Lewis in Japan. Think back to 2010 - 2 races to go the championship looks like this: ALO 231 pts WEB 220 pts VET 206 pts So in the Brazilian GP, the Reb Bulls are leading comfortably with Alonso in 3rd place. By your logic, Vettel should have moved over* for Webber to take the win and an extra 7 points in the championship race against Alonso. If Red Bull had done that, given the results at the final race in Abu Dhabi, then Red Bull would have LOST the drivers title. - Obviously team orders were technically banned in 2010, but it didn't stop Ferrari and I'm sure RB could have swapped their drivers somehow.
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RenOHH
4,909 posts
67 months
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Wanta996Gotta said: "We gained in the drivers' championship and we didn't lose as much as we could have because it looked to me that Red Bull were on for a one-two." He doesn't really mean gained does he? Red Bull - 27 points McLaren - 22 points Ferrari - 18 points Or is he saying McLaren are content with 2nd place?
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hotmelt
845 posts
42 months
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oyster said: The gap in points between HAM and BUT isn't big enough with 5 remaining races to do this. Agree, and Lewis has been pretty clear he doesn't want team orders too, never crossed my mind that he should. Frankly I doubt Button would swap place with Lewis in the last race even if that was crucial for championship win. In fact he would not do that for sure, he first would not stand hamilton being champion.
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