cyclists, why so far from the kerb?
Discussion
superkartracer said:
Only in the UK would a car driver ask such a question, on a Motoring forum where people are meant to be decent drivers 
Fair one! I do regard myself as a decent driver, but then wouldn't any driver?I'm 36 yrs old and so far have an accident and claim free history despite doing high mileage. That's the kiss of death for sure!
The high number of cyclists on the road and some of the odd behaviour I see some perform prompted my starting of this thread. I have certainly learned of some of the hazards they have to contend with.
BFG TERRANO said:
Fully agree. It's opened my eyes to The cyclists side of things.
I like to read things like this. If more drivers cycled, and more cyclists drove, I suspect we'd all rub along together a bit better. Moped riders, OTOH, can f
k right off. A fiery end on all their heads. Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 7th October 21:23
4key said:
I quite like it when people hold a grudge on the internet, it shows their attitude to other aspects in their lives. You come across as an easily annoyed individual yonex, and i am sure that your behaviour when cycling reflects that. That big bright red head you get isnt just from exertion is it 
...and what do you think all of those comments that yonex highlighted, made by you, make everyone else think of you? And your behaviour when driving?
Greg66 said:
I like to read things like this. If more drivers cycled, and more cyclists drove, I suspect we'd all rub along together a bit better.
I suspect that the vast vast majority of cyclists are also drivers. Particularly on here, it's probably close to 100%, being a motoring forum and all. What both need to develop is more patience. The difference is that an impatient cyclists endanger themselves, impatient motorists endanger cyclists.
What does 1 m from the kerb mean? Is it the tyres tracking a path 1m from the kerb?
If so, that is pretty far out for non-urban A and B roads where people can suddenly come walloping up behind you at great speed. But in an urban area where traffic is heavier or slower and there's a risk of pedestrians stepping out, I think it's fairly appropriate.
For what it's worth, when I cycle alone (in the country, rarely in urban areas) I try to stay as far let as I can given the circumstances. Usually this will be tyres at about 12 -15 inches from the left verge or kerb. I wouldn't "as a rule" ride 1m out unless there's very good reason to do so, but that's just personal preference. I consider myself a considerate cyclist, and I try not to hold people up. I would ride fairly quickly (my riding is training for racing) and I do as much as I can to make people's passage past me as easy as possible. However I often find that where I ride, drivers with limited or diminished skill (i.e. the ones I want to encounter the least) will do anything to avoid crossing the centre line of the road when passing, so they pass as close as they can get away with. I fear that if I was 1 m from the verge I would have a higher chance of being clipped. Keeping close to the left means keeping out of their way. To me, being forced to ride into a ditch or hedge is hugely more preferable than being struck from behind by a moron who will probably then drive off into the sunset.
Not direcetd to anyone on this thread, but one thing that does bemuse me is how people, who I suspect would pride themselves on being good drivers, can get so wound up at other road users, be it cyclist, horse, old dawdler etc. A good driver in my book will accept what they find ahead of them and deal with it sensibly and without being totally wound up and affronted by it.
If so, that is pretty far out for non-urban A and B roads where people can suddenly come walloping up behind you at great speed. But in an urban area where traffic is heavier or slower and there's a risk of pedestrians stepping out, I think it's fairly appropriate.
For what it's worth, when I cycle alone (in the country, rarely in urban areas) I try to stay as far let as I can given the circumstances. Usually this will be tyres at about 12 -15 inches from the left verge or kerb. I wouldn't "as a rule" ride 1m out unless there's very good reason to do so, but that's just personal preference. I consider myself a considerate cyclist, and I try not to hold people up. I would ride fairly quickly (my riding is training for racing) and I do as much as I can to make people's passage past me as easy as possible. However I often find that where I ride, drivers with limited or diminished skill (i.e. the ones I want to encounter the least) will do anything to avoid crossing the centre line of the road when passing, so they pass as close as they can get away with. I fear that if I was 1 m from the verge I would have a higher chance of being clipped. Keeping close to the left means keeping out of their way. To me, being forced to ride into a ditch or hedge is hugely more preferable than being struck from behind by a moron who will probably then drive off into the sunset.
Not direcetd to anyone on this thread, but one thing that does bemuse me is how people, who I suspect would pride themselves on being good drivers, can get so wound up at other road users, be it cyclist, horse, old dawdler etc. A good driver in my book will accept what they find ahead of them and deal with it sensibly and without being totally wound up and affronted by it.
Froomee said:
I used to cycle to and from college everyday (round trip of 8 miles or so).
I always used to cycle as close to the kerb as possible and waved cars by on narrow roads or went up the pavement if necessary and assuming it was clear.
Cycling 1 metre (in the middle of the road in a lot of central London) from the kerb or two abreast amounts to deliberate provocation. Certain drivers will always chance a gap regardless of where or how you pedal doing this means you will be constantly holding up traffic making it more likely to happen more often IMO.
I don't understand the logic of cyclists who sit in front of cars at traffic lights either, you know a car is much quicker yet knowingly sit in front of it.
As a cyclist, biker and driver Iv seen it from all angles and I find it best to ride and cycle defensively but riding in the middle of the road because you think it's a bit close is just as inconsiderate as someone going through a tight gap.
It gets to the point in London where you have to park in the kerb when turning left to prevent cyclists coming up the inside, your forced on the wrong side of the road to overtake and if for whatever reason there is an accident it always involves the driver being out of pocket.
I don't mind cyclists going through lights if the green man is on and there is no chance of being hit by traffic or if they cut corners over the pavement to go left, etc as I can see that there is some logic to it but certain things are unnecessary and exaggerated to prove a point which is self defeating as two wrongs don't make a right and makes "the cyclist" as bad as "the driver".
What a very strange post!I always used to cycle as close to the kerb as possible and waved cars by on narrow roads or went up the pavement if necessary and assuming it was clear.
Cycling 1 metre (in the middle of the road in a lot of central London) from the kerb or two abreast amounts to deliberate provocation. Certain drivers will always chance a gap regardless of where or how you pedal doing this means you will be constantly holding up traffic making it more likely to happen more often IMO.
I don't understand the logic of cyclists who sit in front of cars at traffic lights either, you know a car is much quicker yet knowingly sit in front of it.
As a cyclist, biker and driver Iv seen it from all angles and I find it best to ride and cycle defensively but riding in the middle of the road because you think it's a bit close is just as inconsiderate as someone going through a tight gap.
It gets to the point in London where you have to park in the kerb when turning left to prevent cyclists coming up the inside, your forced on the wrong side of the road to overtake and if for whatever reason there is an accident it always involves the driver being out of pocket.
I don't mind cyclists going through lights if the green man is on and there is no chance of being hit by traffic or if they cut corners over the pavement to go left, etc as I can see that there is some logic to it but certain things are unnecessary and exaggerated to prove a point which is self defeating as two wrongs don't make a right and makes "the cyclist" as bad as "the driver".
You can see the logic of cyclists breaking the law, so you don't mind them doing that, but the logic of riding safely eludes you, so nobody must do so!
JuniorD said:
Usually this will be tyres at about 12 -15 inches from the left verge or kerb. I wouldn't "as a rule" ride 1m out unless there's very good reason to do so, but that's just personal preference. I consider myself a considerate cyclist, and I try not to hold people up. I would ride fairly quickly (my riding is training for racing) and I do as much as I can to make people's passage past me as easy as possible. However I often find that where I ride, drivers with limited or diminished skill (i.e. the ones I want to encounter the least) will do anything to avoid crossing the centre line of the road when passing, so they pass as close as they can get away with. I fear that if I was 1 m from the verge I would have a higher chance of being clipped. Keeping close to the left means keeping out of their way. To me, being forced to ride into a ditch or hedge is hugely more preferable than being struck from behind by a moron who will probably then drive off into the sunset.
Cycling close to the verge as you have found, encourages drivers to pass where there isn't enough room. If you cycled slightly more away from the edge then cars would give more room when passing and only overtake where there's enough room, rather than be encouraged (by your being so close to the verge) to squeeze past you as they do now.I used to cycle like you and often found drivers passing where there isn't enough room, I now cycle about a meter from the edge and find much less drivers try to pass where it's not safe.
el stovey said:
JuniorD said:
Usually this will be tyres at about 12 -15 inches from the left verge or kerb. I wouldn't "as a rule" ride 1m out unless there's very good reason to do so, but that's just personal preference. I consider myself a considerate cyclist, and I try not to hold people up. I would ride fairly quickly (my riding is training for racing) and I do as much as I can to make people's passage past me as easy as possible. However I often find that where I ride, drivers with limited or diminished skill (i.e. the ones I want to encounter the least) will do anything to avoid crossing the centre line of the road when passing, so they pass as close as they can get away with. I fear that if I was 1 m from the verge I would have a higher chance of being clipped. Keeping close to the left means keeping out of their way. To me, being forced to ride into a ditch or hedge is hugely more preferable than being struck from behind by a moron who will probably then drive off into the sunset.
Cycling close to the verge as you have found, encourages drivers to pass where there isn't enough room. If you cycled slightly more away from the edge then cars would give more room when passing and only overtake where there's enough room, rather than be encouraged (by your being so close to the verge) to squeeze past you as they do now.I used to cycle like you and often found drivers passing where there isn't enough room, I now cycle about a meter from the edge and find much less drivers try to pass where it's not safe.
The vast majority of car drivers on the road have no real interest in improving their skills and will have forgotten almost everything in the highway code from their test many years earlier. Anything short of strict, compulsory retesting will not solve this.
You then have the problem that many skills required on the road are not taught and need to be learn't through experience. The most common example is driving on the motorway. We all see everyday how many people get the basic rule of 'keep left unless overtaking' wrong.
The interaction between cars and bicycles is the same. To assume most drivers have learn't good road craft in how to interact with cyclists is naive.
This brings me to the point of my post. Most car drivers learn how to interact with cyclists through experience. Half of that experience is when they are negotiating around the cyclist and the other half is when the cyclist is negotiating around them. When the cyclist squeezes through a narrow gap when filtering, it sets a precedence. The car driver learns what gap the cyclist is happy with and applies that knowledge in the future.
As long as you have cyclists filtering at speed through narrow gaps in the traffic, you will have cars overtaking cyclists too closely.
You then have the problem that many skills required on the road are not taught and need to be learn't through experience. The most common example is driving on the motorway. We all see everyday how many people get the basic rule of 'keep left unless overtaking' wrong.
The interaction between cars and bicycles is the same. To assume most drivers have learn't good road craft in how to interact with cyclists is naive.
This brings me to the point of my post. Most car drivers learn how to interact with cyclists through experience. Half of that experience is when they are negotiating around the cyclist and the other half is when the cyclist is negotiating around them. When the cyclist squeezes through a narrow gap when filtering, it sets a precedence. The car driver learns what gap the cyclist is happy with and applies that knowledge in the future.
As long as you have cyclists filtering at speed through narrow gaps in the traffic, you will have cars overtaking cyclists too closely.
alock said:
.
The interaction between cars and bicycles is the same. To assume most drivers have learn't good road craft in how to interact with cyclists is naive.
Its not naive really. Case in point this weekend riding in a 30 limit approachng a line of slowing vehicles a driver decided he just had to overtake two of us. He did get past but then had to stop pretty sharply and if we hadn't been aware of what was going on would probably had been in trouble. When I tapped on his window whilst stationary to ask him what he thought he was playing at he became mute, obviously embarrased by his stupidity. It's common sense.The interaction between cars and bicycles is the same. To assume most drivers have learn't good road craft in how to interact with cyclists is naive.
The best (and IMO only) way to avoid being pushed into the kerb / hedge / potholes / drains is to be at least 3ft from the kerb.
It also means that I am more visible and have an escape route when drivers do come too close.
It is a fact that cars are far wider than they were 50 years ago when most of the cycled roads on GB were laid. Passing a cyclist does require space, both for the safety of the cyclist and the avoidance of points if the driver hits them.
Since cycling I have become far more respectful of other bikes. Obviosuly I accept this shows a failing in my driving prior but I believe I have always made room, whereas now I leave room.
All the talk of cycle lanes is pointless. In the bilk of the country we do not have access to maintained cycle paths. They either are alongside roads and collect road debris and are not cleaned or are off road / semi maintained tracks that go from a to b, and back again.
The road is not the perfect place to cycle, the same as it isnt the perfect place to drive a car. Unless we are off road cyclists or track day enthusiasts it is a space that we need to share, respectfully.
It also means that I am more visible and have an escape route when drivers do come too close.
It is a fact that cars are far wider than they were 50 years ago when most of the cycled roads on GB were laid. Passing a cyclist does require space, both for the safety of the cyclist and the avoidance of points if the driver hits them.
Since cycling I have become far more respectful of other bikes. Obviosuly I accept this shows a failing in my driving prior but I believe I have always made room, whereas now I leave room.
All the talk of cycle lanes is pointless. In the bilk of the country we do not have access to maintained cycle paths. They either are alongside roads and collect road debris and are not cleaned or are off road / semi maintained tracks that go from a to b, and back again.
The road is not the perfect place to cycle, the same as it isnt the perfect place to drive a car. Unless we are off road cyclists or track day enthusiasts it is a space that we need to share, respectfully.
itsnotarace said:
Personally I don't ride 1m away from the kerb all the time. Maybe 2ft or so. I take as much of the lane as I wish when on blind crests or blind corners though. If you want come past me on such an occasion it's you who will have the head-on.
I generally ride a drain width from the curb. No need to go any further out and I think most of the ste surfaces and debris tends to be much nearer the curb.Contrary to the above poster I really dislike it when cars give me a massive wide clearance, but in doing so leave themselves open to a head on collision. I absolutely do not want a car to have a head on just in fromt of me as there would be a good chance of getting caught up in it.
If the other side of the road overtakers just gave a foot or so of clearance then they would safer for me.
To answer 4keys question about being on the wrong sort of bike for the road surface, then my commute is 28 miles each way and takes about 1h40min on the road bike and over 2 hours by mountain bike. I prefer using the road bike. It's a much better tool for the job.
madbadger said:
Contrary to the above poster I really dislike it when cars give me a massive wide clearance, but in doing so leave themselves open to a head on collision. I absolutely do not want a car to have a head on just in fromt of me as there would be a good chance of getting caught up in it.
If there is oncoming traffic, I would rather the driver waited until it was safe to overtake and then gave me decent clearance.Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff