cyclists, why so far from the kerb?
Discussion
otolith said:
madbadger said:
Contrary to the above poster I really dislike it when cars give me a massive wide clearance, but in doing so leave themselves open to a head on collision. I absolutely do not want a car to have a head on just in fromt of me as there would be a good chance of getting caught up in it.
If there is oncoming traffic, I would rather the driver waited until it was safe to overtake and then gave me decent clearance.However what often happens is they slow behind me then overtake anyway. If they are going to do that I would rather they were not so exposed to a head on. As long as they don't hit me that is fine.
The key is the wait for a safe overtake. For me that is more important than a wide clearance.
madbadger said:
Contrary to the above poster I really dislike it when cars give me a massive wide clearance, but in doing so leave themselves open to a head on collision. I absolutely do not want a car to have a head on just in fromt of me as there would be a good chance of getting caught up in it.
Sorry if that was directed at me - I haven't yet had anyone brave enough to go round me when I'm assertively taking the lane on blind crests or blind corners if the risk of a head-on is almost certain if they meet someone coming the other way. On the other hand when cycling closer to the kerb - I have often found people willing to slip through the gap if they only have to breach the centre line by maybe a few inches. Taking the lane is good defensive riding and forces the "overtaker" to think twice if the view ahead is not clear.
If I have held traffic up I will more often than not wave a thank you for waiting until a safe overtake can be made
saaby93 said:
Gizmoish said:
Elsewhere, in a parallel forumverse: "Cars in stationary traffic: why so close to the kerb?"
Just a thought.
Yes I was thinking that tooJust a thought.
- to keep centre clear for an emergency vehicle to sort out why everyone is stationary?
Edited by saaby93 on Sunday 7th October 11:25
Greg66 said:
I like to read things like this. If more drivers cycled, and more cyclists drove, I suspect we'd all rub along together a bit better.
Moped riders, OTOH, can f
k right off. A fiery end on all their heads.
I made the mistake of following one a bit too closely this morning on the way to work. Mid way around a fastish wet right hand bend he decided that he was going too fast so hit the brakes. WTF?Moped riders, OTOH, can f
k right off. A fiery end on all their heads.y2blade said:
saaby93 said:
Gizmoish said:
Elsewhere, in a parallel forumverse: "Cars in stationary traffic: why so close to the kerb?"
Just a thought.
Yes I was thinking that tooJust a thought.
- to keep centre clear for an emergency vehicle to sort out why everyone is stationary?
Edited by saaby93 on Sunday 7th October 11:25
I feel that i ride very efficiently on the road, not too far over so cars are having to dash past at the next "BEST" opportunity, however not dragging myself through the gutter. I still find that drivers (even if directed by myself)are still jumping to zoom past with mm to spare 
. One example i remember one young lady screem up behind me and then overtake to try and turn infront of me not 15 feet ahead forgetting or very possibly not knowing how fast I was going. Which nearly ended in a T-Bone, luckily she realised at the last minute what she was doing and braked very hard stalling her car infront of the entire high school standing across the road. I then proceeded with full gratification knowing she learnt her lesson. 
. Both drivers and Cyclists must give and take in order to prevent things like this happening.
. One example i remember one young lady screem up behind me and then overtake to try and turn infront of me not 15 feet ahead forgetting or very possibly not knowing how fast I was going. Which nearly ended in a T-Bone, luckily she realised at the last minute what she was doing and braked very hard stalling her car infront of the entire high school standing across the road. I then proceeded with full gratification knowing she learnt her lesson. . Both drivers and Cyclists must give and take in order to prevent things like this happening. Kermit power said:
What a very strange post!
You can see the logic of cyclists breaking the law, so you don't mind them doing that, but the logic of riding safely eludes you, so nobody must do so!
Having a law against riding on the pavement is counter-productive IMO riding through some red lights is equal to riding across a pedestrian crossing on green so I can see the logic in this where appropriate.You can see the logic of cyclists breaking the law, so you don't mind them doing that, but the logic of riding safely eludes you, so nobody must do so!
On the other hand riding at a slow speed 1 metre out in a road that is say 8/9 foot wide with no passing place for hundreds of metres is less logical.
Common sense should apply either way unfortunately with the increasing number of cycles on the road in London the amount of near misses or inconsiderate behaviour I see seems to be increasing.
There is usually no reason at all. Pisses me right off when fellow cyclists do this as it gives us all a bad name.
Never had a problem myself whilst keeping in to the kerb.
Too many people have forgotten that whilst they have the right to cycle how and where they want, they also have the responsibility to help the faster traffic move where possible.
Just my opinion as an experienced on and off road cyclist of quite a few years, however I am sure the "me me me" lot wil be along with their rights shortly.
Never had a problem myself whilst keeping in to the kerb.
Too many people have forgotten that whilst they have the right to cycle how and where they want, they also have the responsibility to help the faster traffic move where possible.
Just my opinion as an experienced on and off road cyclist of quite a few years, however I am sure the "me me me" lot wil be along with their rights shortly.
I took up cycling seriously about 6 months ago and have been driving around 6 years.
I personally cycle roughly 2ft away from the kerb. Any further than that to me feels as if I am taking the piss to be honest. 1m away from the kerb plus half the width of a cyclist can quickly become 1.5m(5ft). That is damn near the width of my car.
So as well as this 1.5m the cyclist want another what....1m of overtaking space between them and the car. That puts the car way over the white lines and lets be honest, its all about perceptions. The average car driver perceives the other side of the road as a no go area. They cross there as quicky as possible and return as quickly as possible.
To me it seems as though the cyclists aren't helping themselves with this 1m 'safe zone' Don't get me wrong I love being out on my bike, but forcing traffic well onto the other side of the road isn't right.
I personally cycle roughly 2ft away from the kerb. Any further than that to me feels as if I am taking the piss to be honest. 1m away from the kerb plus half the width of a cyclist can quickly become 1.5m(5ft). That is damn near the width of my car.
So as well as this 1.5m the cyclist want another what....1m of overtaking space between them and the car. That puts the car way over the white lines and lets be honest, its all about perceptions. The average car driver perceives the other side of the road as a no go area. They cross there as quicky as possible and return as quickly as possible.
To me it seems as though the cyclists aren't helping themselves with this 1m 'safe zone' Don't get me wrong I love being out on my bike, but forcing traffic well onto the other side of the road isn't right.
barker22 said:
forcing traffic well onto the other side of the road isn't right.
That's where it should be. The perception that it's ok to pass a cyclist without moving right over, that there is enough room to overtake even if there is traffic coming the other way (or no visibility to see if there is or isn't) is part of the problem.
1m is a very arbitrary measurement considering the varying widths of our roads. Cycle where the left hand wheels of a car would be is a better rule that holds true in most places.
Note that this is not "taking the lane". If and when you are taking the lane you should be where the centre line of a car would be.
Note that this is not "taking the lane". If and when you are taking the lane you should be where the centre line of a car would be.
otolith said:
That's where it should be. The perception that it's ok to pass a cyclist without moving right over, that there is enough room to overtake even if there is traffic coming the other way (or no visibility to see if there is or isn't) is part of the problem.
...and if cyclists don't know this, it's no surpise that so many car drivers don't either.otolith said:
barker22 said:
forcing traffic well onto the other side of the road isn't right.
That's where it should be. The perception that it's ok to pass a cyclist without moving right over, that there is enough room to overtake even if there is traffic coming the other way (or no visibility to see if there is or isn't) is part of the problem.Forcing people over to the other side of the road may force them to think about their overtake a bit more. I've crested a hill to find an oncoming car that was straddling double white lines to overtake a cyclist. How stupid can some people be?
madbadger said:
Contrary to the above poster I really dislike it when cars give me a massive wide clearance, but in doing so leave themselves open to a head on collision. I absolutely do not want a car to have a head on just in fromt of me as I would have to stop and become a witness to an accident.
EFAI know my local roads well as I ride them often, the terrain varries greatly and my distance from the kerb does too.
1.) Major A roads with a good foot inside the solid white at the roads edge.
I'll ride inside the white line where it is safe to do so, over-hanging branches, drains, manhole covers, broken glass, deep puddles will prevent me from doing so, in this case i will check for following traffic and signal right to pull beyond the white line.
2.) Major A roads with no inner margin.
I'll be a good 18 inches off the kerb, giving me room to stay outside the drains and mahholes, if you want to go around you'll likely have to cross the center line, do it when it's safe (helps if you have a big V8)
3.) Minor A/busy B roads.
I'm going to be maneuvering around pot-holes and broken surfaces all the time.
My choice is ride close in and swerve towards passing traffic to avoid defects (I'd be a fking idiot if I did this) or ride with a good margin and use the option of moving to the kerb to avoid a defect (sensible)
3.) minor B roads.
like above but I'll slow and tuck in on corners and be ready to point it at a bush at any given moment, oncoming cars are fecking scary on single lane roads!
edit to add, if I'm holding up traffic I'll pull in if possible, either that or I'll kick in a burst of speed. There's no motivation like not getting run over!
1.) Major A roads with a good foot inside the solid white at the roads edge.
I'll ride inside the white line where it is safe to do so, over-hanging branches, drains, manhole covers, broken glass, deep puddles will prevent me from doing so, in this case i will check for following traffic and signal right to pull beyond the white line.
2.) Major A roads with no inner margin.
I'll be a good 18 inches off the kerb, giving me room to stay outside the drains and mahholes, if you want to go around you'll likely have to cross the center line, do it when it's safe (helps if you have a big V8)
3.) Minor A/busy B roads.
I'm going to be maneuvering around pot-holes and broken surfaces all the time.
My choice is ride close in and swerve towards passing traffic to avoid defects (I'd be a f
king idiot if I did this) or ride with a good margin and use the option of moving to the kerb to avoid a defect (sensible)3.) minor B roads.
like above but I'll slow and tuck in on corners and be ready to point it at a bush at any given moment, oncoming cars are fecking scary on single lane roads!
edit to add, if I'm holding up traffic I'll pull in if possible, either that or I'll kick in a burst of speed. There's no motivation like not getting run over!
Edited by Jayfish on Tuesday 9th October 01:24
barker22 said:
Lots of stuff, then: "Don't get me wrong I love being out on my bike, but forcing traffic well onto the other side of the road isn't right."
No cyclist will ever force a motor vehicle onto the other side of the road. "a force is any influence that causes an object to undergo a certain change, either concerning its movement, direction, or geometrical construction" I've not yet met a cyclist with sufficient physical attributes to exert 'force' upon two tonnes of plastic and metal.If you are a driver who wishes to overtake another vehicle which is moving more slowly than you find acceptable, you have what is known as a 'CHOICE'. You can read the road, plan ahead, and execute a deliberate overtake when the situation allows. Or, perhaps, you could just wait behind the slower vehicle, quietly fuming because you lack a sense of anticipation and the requisite driving skill to execute a safe manoeuvre. Or perhaps, after you've fumed for a bit, and allowed your 'red mist' to descend, you could use your vehicle as a weapon of intimidation against the slower vehicle's operator, 'cause it's such a macho thing to do.
There is one particular stretch of local road, where I have witnessed such shocking behaviour toward cyclists by fellow drivers, that I now remain behind any cyclist ahead of me, in order to 'watch their back' until they can reach the relative safety of a wider road or suitable cyclepath. Not all of us who fail (ie: decide not) to overtake remain behind bikes because we don't know HOW to get by. Sometimes it's because we recognise a duty to care for the safety of our fellow man. Ironically, this very stretch of road used to be plenty wide enough to allow cars to pass bikes safely, until some of the road was taken away, to be replaced by what is without doubt the area's least suitable cycle route. The surface is absolutely terrible, and at either end, the cycle route requires a cyclist to cross two lanes of traffic on a very busy route. This means that anyone who wishes to commute by bike has no real choice but to ride on the road, else they would probably end up late for work.
Those of you who like to think that you are being held up by traffic need to remember that you ARE traffic. There are just as many people behind you being held up by YOUR presence on the road as there are people ahead of you holding YOU up.
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