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daveskerr82
Original Poster
34 posts
17 months
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Hello, I was out having a play with my camera last night and I was excited to get set up and take some pictures like the one I have attached below:  I am gutted to find that the majority of the pictures that I took look really soft, despite looking sharp on the LCD screen on the camera at the time. The camera was on a tripod which was untouched , and the shutter was fired using a remote shutter cable so I am ruling out any camera shake. My camera is a Nikon D3100 and I was using the kit 18-55vr lens. Camera was in manual mode with manual focus due to the darkness, with the focus set to infinity (ring turned all the way to the right). The above picture was a 30 sec exposure at f6.3. Any ideas or pointers? Would it be at all possible for the viewfinder focus to be slightly out? Im just really disappointed at missing out on some really cracking pictures last night and I don't know how to remedy this!  David
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GetCarter
16,735 posts
148 months
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The shutter itself will cause the camera to move, so use 'mirror up' - the no shake option. (AKA Live view on later models)
Don't know the 3100, but assume it has said option.
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markmullen
12,402 posts
103 months
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As GC says, mirror lockup. If it doesn't have mirror lockup use liveview, it works similarly.
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14-7
5,714 posts
60 months
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Were they taken as RAW or JEPG images?
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Nick M
3,137 posts
92 months
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daveskerr82 said: Hello,
My camera is a Nikon D3100 and I was using the kit 18-55vr lens. Camera was in manual mode with manual focus due to the darkness, with the focus set to infinity (ring turned all the way to the right). The above picture was a 30 sec exposure at f6.3. Was the VR turned off ? If not, it can get a bit confused when it's on a tripod - the manual for my 70-200 VR recommends turning VR off when using a tripod, so I suspect the 18-55 is no different. Secondly, infinity isn't always right at the end of the focus travel - some lenses (and again, my 70-200 exhibits this) can overshoot infinity and be slightly soft when the focus ring is turned all the way to the end. Ideally you need to test this in daylight through the view-finder and then make a note of whether the lens suffers from this or not. Finally, for lenses which still have some distance markings, you could try hyperfocal focusing to ensure as much of the image is in focus as possible.
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Simpo Two
54,274 posts
134 months
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daveskerr82
Original Poster
34 posts
17 months
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Mirror lock was definitely off so that is something that I will try firstly. VR was switched off on the lens. Photos were taken in RAW. Not sure if the lens goes soft at the far right end of the focus ring, I will give that a try. Problem was last night, I was in the moment (ie darkness) and I had nothing to focus on as a reference. Images looked sharp on the LCD screen so I had no reason to think this wasn't the case.
Cheers
David
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DibblyDobbler
6,575 posts
66 months
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My first few efforts at star shots looked like this so I can sympathise. Best advice I can give is to focus the lens on a distant-ish object before you go out and then stick it on manual focus and leave it. See http://www.dofmaster.com/ to check your pre-focussing distance but if you are shooting at a wide-ish angle it wont need to be that far off (eg indoors will probably work). Once you're out and have taken a shot zoom right in on your camera screen to check it has focussed ok. This is one of the trickiest things on star shots so don't be too down on yourself 
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rxtx
4,235 posts
79 months
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For night sky photography I find the best focus point is in fact just before infinity. I use live view while pointed at a bright star/planet and zoom in (digitally, using the LCD screen) and adjust focus that way.
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Simpo Two
54,274 posts
134 months
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I doubt mirror lock is going to make much difference to a 30-second night-time exposure. Neither is RAW vs. JPG.
You have to decide whether the photo is (a) out of focus, or (b) the camera has moved. These are different things and usually distinguishable by close examination.
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AndWhyNot
2,172 posts
68 months
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Did you focus on something, or just wind the focus ring round to infinity? Best bet is always the former.
Can be tough at times, but if it means the difference between bringing soft or sharp shots home, it's worth it. Read up about hyperfocal distances & depth of field and it'll give you an insight into how far into the frame you can focus for any given focal length/ aperture pairing. Armed with this info you can make a judgement on about focusing on location. The wider angle your lens, the closer to the camera you can focus and still get the whole scene sharp. That makes it easy in that you can just shine a torch at the given range and focus where the torchlight hits. Longer lenses need greater focal distance so you might need to pick out the moon or a distant streetlight.
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Crafty_
4,552 posts
69 months
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rxtx said: For night sky photography I find the best focus point is in fact just before infinity. I use live view while pointed at a bright star/planet and zoom in (digitally, using the LCD screen) and adjust focus that way. This. On my 24-105 it tends to be on the "stick" of the L before the infinity mark, a bit like this but more to the right (as we look at the pic):  I once had a very interesting link that explained the exact point of infinity changes slightly, due to temperature/humidity etc. Alas I can't find it  If there is something (like a tree) some distance away I've shone a LED light at it, got autofocus and then left it there. Failing that you need to manual focus.
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RobDickinson
15,236 posts
123 months
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Once you have stability sorted ( tripod, timed shot, not too fussed with mlu) focus is the real key, its a biatch with star shots , use live view on stars and/or take a powerful torch.
Infinity mark on the lens isnt always right.
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checkmate91
439 posts
42 months
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You're absolutely right, had exactly this with an old Tamron SP300 on my canon body. Moon is just around the "foot" of the infinity hockey stick, stars as bit further on. This with +10 live view
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JDRoest
994 posts
19 months
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daveskerr82 said: Any ideas or pointers? Would it be at all possible for the viewfinder focus to be slightly out? Im just really disappointed at missing out on some really cracking pictures last night and I don't know how to remedy this!  Focus manually and use a torch to read the lens itself to make sure you are on infinity. You can try and focus manually through the viewfinder.... I did a 7 minute exposure on an Italian mountain last year - looked great on the lcd, but it's only when you zoom in do you appreciate how far off focus was. Also, set the ISO to 100. It's not like the sky is going anywhere and there is way too much noise at 1600. For what it's worth though - it's a good shot.
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DibblyDobbler
6,575 posts
66 months
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Actually - thinking about it again 30 seconds is long enough to get star trails shooting at 18mm on a crop sensor I think. 600/18*1.5 = 22ish (ie max exposure time before trails) so that's also going to be an issue  JDRoest said: It's not like the sky is going anywhere That's literally true but we (ie the earth) are going somewhere! I assume the OP did not want a star trail shot so a high ISO is necessary.
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AndWhyNot
2,172 posts
68 months
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JDRoest said: Focus manually and use a torch to read the lens itself to make sure you are on infinity. You can try and focus manually through the viewfinder....
I did a 7 minute exposure on an Italian mountain last year - looked great on the lcd, but it's only when you zoom in do you appreciate how far off focus was. Disagree- AF is the way. It should either be spot on or way off. Focus manually and you can be a little bit off yet it'll look fine on the LCD... as you seem to have found out.
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RobDickinson
15,236 posts
123 months
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JDRoest said: Also, set the ISO to 100. It's not like the sky is going anywhere and there is way too much noise at 1600. I disagree with this. Unless you have a really fast lens (and the issues that causes) ISO 100 will record very few stars. ISO 800-1600-3200 and f4-f5.6 is better.
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2slo
1,573 posts
36 months
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RobDickinson said: ISO 100 will record very few stars.ISO 800-1600-3200 and f4-f5.6 is better. Why would higher ISOs record more stars? Surely lower ISO = less noise = more visible stars. Or am I missing something?
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Vipers
15,544 posts
97 months
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2slo said: RobDickinson said: ISO 100 will record very few stars.ISO 800-1600-3200 and f4-f5.6 is better. Why would higher ISOs record more stars? Interesting, so how? 
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