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E38Ross

Original Poster:

15,474 posts

100 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
I notice a few people on here have had E60 M5s and have gone on to get an F10 M5.....what are your experiences? Do you prefer the F10?

i know that the F10 is in just about every measurable way the better car (it's faster, it has more low down power, it's more economical, it has a far superior gearbox etc) but do you PREFER the F10?

in the not too distant future i may be in the position to buy a late E60 M5 or early F10 M5 depending on what prices do and i know i'd have to drive both but for some reason the E60 M5 appeals more. I know it's flawed, and know the gearbox is a weak point and is quite jerky....but that high revving V10 IS a dying breed. i'm quite young, i should be saving for a house but i thought....cars like these (high revving, naturally aspirated engined cars) won't be around for too much longer and houses will, so get something nice whilst i still can, and before they begin to get really leggy. i'm not sure whether the new turbo charged M cars appeal as much (i'd love an E63 M6 for example, the new one really doesn't appeal...as great as it is i'm sure).

so....what say you, those who have driven both?

thanks

FamilyDub

3,546 posts

53 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
I've never driven either, but for some reason the E60/61 just seems to have more appeal than the F10.

As you say, the E61/61 probably appeals more in spite of it's flaws... That's just my perception, though.

pjv997

430 posts

70 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Not quite the comparison that you are looking for but I went from an E90 M3 manual to an F10 M5.

The points about the F10 being better are right. It is very fast, can play hooligan or be a very comfortable cruiser. In almost any objective assessment, for my needs, it is the much better car.

BUT I really miss driving the M3 - manual gearbox, n/a engine and for me, more 'chuckable'.

If your motivation is to get a taste of M car before the n/a engines get too old and leggy, I'd say steer clear of the F10. You can always an F10 or the F30 M3 for your next car or the one after.

And don't ignore the M3 V8 - it's not a V10 but it's also worth considering.

E38Ross

Original Poster:

15,474 posts

100 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Thanks for the replies chaps. I've driven an E92 M3 quite a lot ad my dad owns one, and may end up buying it instead. It's a truly lovely car to drive and in reality is more than quick enough. I just adored the M6 is went in though!!

Cheburator mk2

1,589 posts

87 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
I own an E61 M5 as a daily driver. When the F10 came out I was invited for an extended test drive. And I absolutely hated it. If it had an AMG badge on the boot it would have been the best car in the world… Don’t get me wrong – it is still an amazing car inside, miles better than the E61 (and mine has had the full leather treatment), but the engine is lazy and laggy relative to the E61, the chassis is a not as sharp as the E60 and the gearbox, although amazingly smooth, takes out all the drama of driving… Thus if you want a rawer more exciting car – the E60/1 is miles better, however, if you want to travel at warp speed, but not feel anything, then the F10 makes more sense… Or just get a CLS…
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Mermaid

18,628 posts

59 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
What's the budget?

E38Ross

Original Poster:

15,474 posts

100 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Will be circa 30k but I could always wait a little longer to increase that depending on the market but any more than that and depreciation is still a factor.

Thanks chaps.

Mermaid

18,628 posts

59 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
E38Ross said:
Will be circa 30k but I could always wait a little longer to increase that depending on the market but any more than that and depreciation is still a factor.

Thanks chaps.
E63 M6

Skrambles

982 posts

152 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
No regrets buying my F10: it's the best all-rounder saloon there is, for a performance enthusiast. It's way more responsive than the E60 etc etc. I thought about getting another E60 and went for a test drive, but the test drive of an F10, 2 days later, changed my mind for good. The V10 is great when pushed hard, otherwise it's sluggish and the sound is very muted. The SMG gearbox is bovine and soon becomes annoying. Overall, the experience of living with the E60 as a daily driver was disappointing - the F10 is not.

E38Ross

Original Poster:

15,474 posts

100 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Mermaid said:
E38Ross said:
Will be circa 30k but I could always wait a little longer to increase that depending on the market but any more than that and depreciation is still a factor.

Thanks chaps.
E63 M6
i think this is what i'd be after. it's either this or i buy my old mans M3 when he chops it in....at least with that I know the history and what it's been like and how it's been treated etc.

but having been in an M6 i do prefer the extra grunt (not that the M3 is lacking!)

Mermaid

18,628 posts

59 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
E38Ross said:
...but having been in an M6 i do prefer the extra grunt (not that the M3 is lacking!)
We have had this conversation before wink

E38Ross

Original Poster:

15,474 posts

100 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Mermaid said:
E38Ross said:
...but having been in an M6 i do prefer the extra grunt (not that the M3 is lacking!)
We have had this conversation before wink
hehe i shan't go there!

love them both....but the M6 certainly felt like a step up, and i don't just mean in performance. it was really, really comfortable.....amazingly so i thought. also a fair chunk quieter than the M3 and obviously the interior is much nicer....basically what you'd expect for what cost about £30k more when new or so! it will be a tough call...i prefer the M6 i think but the M3 will be the more enjoyable car to drive i feel.

still, i'm in no hurry and have a while to save yet! but i'm able to put by approx £1200-1500 or so per month at the moment so i'm going to wait until i have more than enough for a decent deposit and for any impending bork etc before buying. time will tell what i choose!

thepony

1,449 posts

53 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Cheburator mk2 said:
I own an E61 M5 as a daily driver. When the F10 came out I was invited for an extended test drive. And I absolutely hated it. If it had an AMG badge on the boot it would have been the best car in the world… Don’t get me wrong – it is still an amazing car inside, miles better than the E61 (and mine has had the full leather treatment), but the engine is lazy and laggy relative to the E61, the chassis is a not as sharp as the E60 and the gearbox, although amazingly smooth, takes out all the drama of driving… Thus if you want a rawer more exciting car – the E60/1 is miles better, however, if you want to travel at warp speed, but not feel anything, then the F10 makes more sense… Or just get a CLS…
This is why I would one day love to own a high revving NA M Engine be it M5 or M6 ....

Pig Skill

1,368 posts

91 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
For me the E60 M5 is just too much as a long term, daily driving proposition.

There are so many downsides — cost of repairs, woeful 'box, peaky power, reliability questions, thirst etc The only upside is the searing acceleration and accompanying noise but that is not enough to compensate. I kept mine a few months then offloaded it, never to go back.

In the F 10 BMW have improved on all the areas above and produced a much more reliable vehicle and more usable ownership proposition.

I'd have the V8 M3 over both

StuH

2,193 posts

161 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Pig Skill said:
For me the E60 M5 is just too much as a long term, daily driving proposition.

There are so many downsides — cost of repairs, woeful 'box, peaky power, reliability questions, thirst etc The only upside is the searing acceleration and accompanying noise but that is not enough to compensate. I kept mine a few months then offloaded it, never to go back.

In the F 10 BMW have improved on all the areas above and produced a much more reliable vehicle and more usable ownership proposition.

I'd have the V8 M3 over both
The M3 has most of the "downsides" you list but lacks the real grunt. M3 just never felt properly quick to me, missing the warp speed moment that you get at the top of the rev range in the M5. Also the rear seats are cramped and as we use the M5 as the family car the ability to take 3 in the back in comfort and have the cavernous boot - it carried 3 sets of golf clubs last weekend - make it a better all-rounder. No doubt the F10 has addressed the perceived failings of the M5, but any car is a set of compromises and I feel they've just swapped the old weaknesses for new ones - too big, FI instead of NA, lack of drama etc. Add in the current price differential and it's apples and oranges. Plus you can't say the F10 is more reliable, too early in its life to know that, and given the oil pump recall not off to the most auspicious of starts.


Edited by StuH on Tuesday 9th October 07:58

thepony

1,449 posts

53 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
StuH said:
The M3 has most of the "downsides" you list but lacks the real grunt. M3 just never felt properly quick to me, missing the warp speed moment that you get at the top of the rev range in the M5. Also the rear seats are cramped and as we use the M5 as the family car the ability to take 3 in the back in comfort and have the cavernous boot - it carried 3 sets of golf clubs last weekend - make it a better all-rounder. No doubt the F10 has addressed the perceived failings of the M5, but any car is a set of compromises and I feel they've just swapped the old weaknesses for new ones - too big, FI instead of NA, lack of drama etc. Add in the current price differential and it's apples and oranges. Plus you can't say the F10 is more reliable, too early in its life to know that, and given the oil pump recall not off to the most auspicious of starts.


Edited by StuH on Tuesday 9th October 07:58
+1

Pig Skill

1,368 posts

91 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
StuH said:
Pig Skill said:
For me the E60 M5 is just too much as a long term, daily driving proposition.

There are so many downsides — cost of repairs, woeful 'box, peaky power, reliability questions, thirst etc The only upside is the searing acceleration and accompanying noise but that is not enough to compensate. I kept mine a few months then offloaded it, never to go back.

In the F 10 BMW have improved on all the areas above and produced a much more reliable vehicle and more usable ownership proposition.

I'd have the V8 M3 over both
The M3 has most of the "downsides" you list but lacks the real grunt. M3 just never felt properly quick to me, missing the warp speed moment that you get at the top of the rev range in the M5. Also the rear seats are cramped and as we use the M5 as the family car the ability to take 3 in the back in comfort and have the cavernous boot - it carried 3 sets of golf clubs last weekend - make it a better all-rounder. No doubt the F10 has addressed the perceived failings of the M5, but any car is a set of compromises and I feel they've just swapped the old weaknesses for new ones - too big, FI instead of NA, lack of drama etc. Add in the current price differential and it's apples and oranges. Plus you can't say the F10 is more reliable, too early in its life to know that, and given the oil pump recall not off to the most auspicious of starts.


Edited by StuH on Tuesday 9th October 07:58
Yep, fair points there. Especially considering the reliability

Cheburator mk2

1,589 posts

87 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Pig Skill said:
Yep, fair points there. Especially considering the reliability
I think to be fair, the only M5, which is reasonably bomb-proof as 2nd hand-daily-driver proposition is the E39. Reason being that despite a few ECU governed bits and bobs here and there, the car is still fairly analogue compared to the fully digital E60/F10s. I would not even dream of running my E61 M5 without the BMW AUC Warranty, yet I would be pretty happy dealing on my own with an E39 and its potential issues...

StuH

2,193 posts

161 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Cheburator mk2 said:
I think to be fair, the only M5, which is reasonably bomb-proof as 2nd hand-daily-driver proposition is the E39. Reason being that despite a few ECU governed bits and bobs here and there, the car is still fairly analogue compared to the fully digital E60/F10s. I would not even dream of running my E61 M5 without the BMW AUC Warranty, yet I would be pretty happy dealing on my own with an E39 and its potential issues...
My e39 M5 was the most troublesome of the lot, 2 VANOS bank replacements! Thankfully under warranty. Plus continual issues with MAF sensors.

Although I should add that I have zero mechanical skills, but then VANOS replacement isn't a job you'd take on lightly.

Cheburator mk2

1,589 posts

87 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
StuH said:
My e39 M5 was the most troublesome of the lot, 2 VANOS bank replacements! Thankfully under warranty. Plus continual issues with MAF sensors.

Although I should add that I have zero mechanical skills, but then VANOS replacement isn't a job you'd take on lightly.
For sure, but on the E60/1 you have the added "bonus" of iDrive, SMGIII, EDC, Vanos, MAFs. Lambda Sensors, Active Seats, Panoramic Sunroofs, Adaptive lights, HUD requiring OEM Windscren etc... And I would imagine the F10 is even more complicated wink
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