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Gadgeroonie

Original Poster:

5,314 posts

120 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Has anyone tried a colder stat to keep the engine running cooler. I reckon i can get some 80c or 85c stats that will fit our cars

should take the strain off the cooling system on track. You might even be able to plug a oil/water cooler into the system

Hollowpockets

5,593 posts

100 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
As iv found with TVR's, fitting a lower temp stat doesnt work, it will only take longer for the water to feach full running temp, once up to temp the water wont run cooler on track as the engine still creates the same heat. The fans will still turn off at the same temp so it wont cool the water down below where it was before.

Gadgeroonie

Original Poster:

5,314 posts

120 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
do you mean it will take longer to warm up to say 80C ?

andygtt

7,385 posts

148 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Im very keen to try a colder thermostat... the fans can be easily reconfigured and it being fully open at say 85C rather that 95C like now would mean more chance of shedding heat on track... if it struggles to remove the heat then I will upgrade the cooling system so that it can, the stock one wasn't designed to run a turbo application.

ours 'start' to open at 88c... id like one that starts at 78c!

Id also like one that is less restrictive... ours is in a stand alone T housing, is there a chance to go to one from a larger capacity engine or electronic controlled one?

Hollowpockets

5,593 posts

100 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Well i guess we are both right Andy, changing the thermostat alone wont make a difference, it will open sooner, meaning the water and then oil will take longer to heat up, but you cant cap how hot the engine runs so the water will eventually always run at 95ish. Unless you have fans controlling it at 85 for example or change the cooling system.

BUT the extra heat over NA cars obviously comes from the turbo/s through water and oil, they will still create the same heat, your oil and water from turbos will always be draining and putting that same heat back into the engine, it just means your trying to remove more of it, constantly.


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andygtt

7,385 posts

148 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
The reason I want to try one is that we cant run cooler than 90-95 ATM as the thermostat simply isnt open until then... if it opens at 80 and fully open at 85 if our cooling system is capable it MAY run at 85.

Lets be hounest on track the fans are a restriction rather than a cooling aid... they cant flow as much as as when the car is moving at 100mph.... so when they come on will only be of use on idle or in the pits.

As you say just replacing the themostat will only make it run cooler if the rad etc have the extra capacity to deliver the extra cooling to keep temps low... Im VERY sceptical even the pro alloy rad has that capacity and it will prob run at the same temp on track and just take an extra lap to get there lol

Cooling is currently my main focus on the car as mine just isn't controlling it effectivelly on track.

Gadgeroonie

Original Poster:

5,314 posts

120 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
a friend of mine works for a company that supplies thermostats

he is going to get some part numbers of cooler stats that will be compatible with our cars

smile

andygtt

7,385 posts

148 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
I looked and all the ford V6s and the jag all used the same 188f thermostat, so looking forward to what he finds out.

Still keen to explore other larger T ones... worth a reminder that ours doesnt just open, it opens flow to the rad and shuts off the flow back into the engine... effectivelly re-directing the flow.

Adrian W

9,251 posts

112 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
andygtt said:
I looked and all the ford V6s and the jag all used the same 188f thermostat, so looking forward to what he finds out.

Still keen to explore other larger T ones... worth a reminder that ours doesnt just open, it opens flow to the rad and shuts off the flow back into the engine... effectivelly re-directing the flow.
I think i've mentioned this before, on the race car we drilled small holes around the stat, so would have the same effect, I think someone said this is a very bad idea.

R0162

2,435 posts

48 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
One of the first things everybody recommends when taking a UK car to Cyprus is change the thermostat for one that opens earlier.
The reasoning behind it is that the rad starts cooling sooner and it takes the coolant longer to get to temp,.
But that does not help you when you are up to temp, it is all down to the efficiency of the cooling system, they know this and the only reason they do it is because it is intended to stop coolant temps rising too fast on inadequate systems that struggle to bring the temps back down.

I therefore did not opt to put a thermostat that opens earlier, but instead made sure the cooling system was working optimally, the optimal temp is 95-96...this is easy to achieve even in 40deg ambient on racetrack with the relevant cooling mods are undertaken.
I understand that there is more heat with the more powerful cars, but still should not be a problem in UK climate, the cooling systems on these cars are very effective when running properly, and I had this discussion with guys who race in LA who also commented on how well these cars handled high temp racing.
IMO foam strips blocking a pa read to clam with foam strips is a much more effective mod to keep temps optimal.

Gadgeroonie

Original Poster:

5,314 posts

120 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Adrian W said:
I think i've mentioned this before, on the race car we drilled small holes around the stat, so would have the same effect, I think someone said this is a very bad idea.
it is a bad idea on a road car because it takes the engine a long time to get up to temperature

many racers remove the stat altogether

at the end of the day the solution is to fit a more efficient radiator - but if you already have done this then a cooler stat will let the cooling system run cooler and have a greater buffer when the going gets hot

Hollowpockets

5,593 posts

100 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Gadgeroonie said:
it is a bad idea on a road car because it takes the engine a long time to get up to temperature

many racers remove the stat altogether

at the end of the day the solution is to fit a more efficient radiator - but if you already have done this then a cooler stat will let the cooling system run cooler and have a greater buffer when the going gets hot
So you start a thread asking has anyone tried what you now agree is a bad idea... Drilling holes is the same as fitting a low temp stat!!

I don't think it will make any difference on track, try focussing on getting better airflow through the engine bay to cool the oil/engine/turbos as the water systems cope fine and never overheat in my experience.



Gadgeroonie

Original Poster:

5,314 posts

120 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
drilling holes is not the same as fitting a colder stat - very different

car will warm up as normal with a cooler stat till it reaches temperature

with the holes it will take ages to warm up

Hollowpockets

5,593 posts

100 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Very different? The effect it has is the same... Being the engine takes longer to get to full operating temprature.

There's nothing wrong with the cooling system, how often have you heard of any, even the 600+bhp cars overheating the cooling system? I can't think of any unless the radiator has been leaking.

Oil cooling and engine bay heat from the turbos are the problem.

andygtt

7,385 posts

148 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
mine does and I think it was the cause of one of my engine issues..... when I had the MBE I didnt know it was an issue even though the ECU was programmed to show actual engine temp (or technically should have).... I remember when the engine had an issue I was watching the guage and although I cant exactly recal what it was at I do know it was static and didnt creap up.... I had been on track for 25mins at the time.

Now I have the Motec I have stuck a probe into the water system to map the temp sensor rather than rely on an existing table and found the water temp continues to creap up on track, something I never knew before.

Having spoken to a few of the big HP boys they all say they think they have got the ecu to send the correct temp to the guage... but the guage always sits around 90c... and yet the fans do go on and off.... fans are set to come on at 96c therefore the guage cant be reading real if it doesnt go that high and yet fans come on!

Its a mystery to me what the MBE was/is doing... but I know for a fact that my water temp creaps up on track.

BTW I believe 90c and below is optimal for water temp (not oil)... I've set my ecu to reduce boost at 100c.

I have pro alloy rad new water pump etc etc etc

Hollowpockets

5,593 posts

100 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Of course the water temp will creep up a bit on track, regardless of gauge accuracy, my point is fitting a lower temp stat won't stop it from doing that!!!!! It will only prolong the heating process.

Well I thrash the titties off my 600+bhp car as hard as anyone else and my water temps have never been a problem.



Adrian W

9,251 posts

112 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Mine has always spat water out of the overflow on track, so did the racecar, so the water must be pressurising, however the oil temp never goes over 110 degrees. I have always taken the view that watching the oil temp is more reliable. One thought though, a by-product of power is heat. Maybe the cooling system just isn’t up to the job.

andygtt

7,385 posts

148 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Adrian W said:
Mine has always spat water out of the overflow on track, so did the racecar, so the water must be pressurising, however the oil temp never goes over 110 degrees. I have always taken the view that watching the oil temp is more reliable. One thought though, a by-product of power is heat. Maybe the cooling system just isn’t up to the job.
this is my point i'm not 100% convinced the cooling system is up for the job... all the high HP boys seem to go on track for 15mins max at a time... I run mine at full power all the time not just on the straights and I went out for more than 15mins.... its possible the water temp isn't controlled and doing short stints means its not an issue.

Of cause it could just be me having an issue, maybe I have a blockage or a faulty rad!

Having a high water temp regardless of oil temp is a bad idea as makes the engine prone to det.

Currently Im suspecting the stat itself is restrictive as the rad is shedding a huge amount of heat... it doesnt exactly open that far


ludoZ3

118 posts

81 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
andygtt said:
Its a mystery to me what the MBE was/is doing... but I know for a fact that my water temp creaps up on track.
Not a mystery Andy, Jeff on nobleforums has shown the table, response on the gauge via the ECU is not linear with the actual temperature, it is "dampened" (it's also the case on your M5 for exemple) so it appears to be stable when you're driving around. wink

Gadgeroonie

Original Poster:

5,314 posts

120 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Hollowpockets i think you may be mistaken about the warm up time. I can speak from experience, one of my other cars has been running with holes drilled in the stat it takes about 10 miles to get up to temperature. The new 82c stat was fitted and it gets up to temperature in only a few minutes.

The car now has a lower running temperature
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