Zero grip in the wet
Discussion
I had a day at Brands Hatch yesterday, annoyingly, given the decent weather either side, it was damp to wet all day.
I was just about the slowest thing out there; wheel spin in a straight line, locking up under braking, over steer in the tight corners, under steer in the fast, all in a gear higher than usual and at pitifully low speeds.
I know Caterhams are going to be skittish but this seemed ridiculous. I'm running Avon CR500s, partly worn, I'm wondering whether it is significant that they're about 7 years old, has the compound just gone off? Anything else about set up that might be wrong, it handles beautifully on a warm dry day?
I was just about the slowest thing out there; wheel spin in a straight line, locking up under braking, over steer in the tight corners, under steer in the fast, all in a gear higher than usual and at pitifully low speeds.
I know Caterhams are going to be skittish but this seemed ridiculous. I'm running Avon CR500s, partly worn, I'm wondering whether it is significant that they're about 7 years old, has the compound just gone off? Anything else about set up that might be wrong, it handles beautifully on a warm dry day?
Edited by MikeO996 on Tuesday 9th October 19:05
Edited by MikeO996 on Tuesday 9th October 19:06
Brands is great fun in the wet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a53N6sCgReQ&fea...
Probably a combination of tyres, setup and line.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a53N6sCgReQ&fea...
Probably a combination of tyres, setup and line.
James.S said:
Brands is great fun in the wet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a53N6sCgReQ&fea...
Probably a combination of tyres, setup and line.
james, nice driving!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a53N6sCgReQ&fea...
Probably a combination of tyres, setup and line.
Is that an S3 or a CSR? What tyres and dampers are you running? thks
I wouldn't worry about it; Sevens are bloody awful in the wet,especially on smooth racetracks. At the same track and in the same car from 'why do I bother, I am hopeless and the car is worse'(being overtaken by very mundane machinery and spinning embarassingly ) to ' my word , I am indeed a driving god '(scalping a GT3 and GT2 in successive laps).
Driver inputs - you need to be so so gentle and wait an age when it's really wet.
Tyres - need a decent tread depth. Old worn CR500s might struggle.
LSD - does your car have one? Spinning up the inside wheel and going nowhere is likely if not
On a very wet day at (old) Anglesey I was being overtaken by everything but still having loads of fun drifting the car around at relatively low speeds. It did wonders for my brake pedal feel, heel and toe ability and my oversteer control (throttle and steering).
Tyres - need a decent tread depth. Old worn CR500s might struggle.
LSD - does your car have one? Spinning up the inside wheel and going nowhere is likely if not
On a very wet day at (old) Anglesey I was being overtaken by everything but still having loads of fun drifting the car around at relatively low speeds. It did wonders for my brake pedal feel, heel and toe ability and my oversteer control (throttle and steering).
I am no expert, but for what you say it (wheel spin on straights...) it looks more as old tyres.
While tread depth is probably the most important, I read recently that in wet conditions it is the "edges" of the blocks what give you grip (I am no English native, so excuse me if I cannot explain myself properly).
Said in another way, you should look at your tyres and check if the cross section of the blocks on the surface show "sharp" corners (like when new) or "rounded" ones (like an old pencil eraser). I am sorry but I cannot find where I read that, but I found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDBQNpFjtrI
Another point, what where your tyre pressures? If they were a little high it would explain everything.
While tread depth is probably the most important, I read recently that in wet conditions it is the "edges" of the blocks what give you grip (I am no English native, so excuse me if I cannot explain myself properly).
Said in another way, you should look at your tyres and check if the cross section of the blocks on the surface show "sharp" corners (like when new) or "rounded" ones (like an old pencil eraser). I am sorry but I cannot find where I read that, but I found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDBQNpFjtrI
Another point, what where your tyre pressures? If they were a little high it would explain everything.
Found it! But I am afraid it is in Spanish... you always can use Google translate:
http://www.zonagravedad.com/modules.php?name=News&...
Something like this:
"When in a bend the tire starts to slide laterally (or in a braking slip ratio longitudinally by sliding), the corners of the blocks that form the channels rubber push any residual water in the same way that a rubber scraper dry glass and so manage to dry the surface rubber blocks that come behind you. It is therefore important that the corners have a very sharp angle (not rounded). The very fine longitudinal grooves are designed to assist in this function than to accommodate large quantities of water."
Hope it helps.
http://www.zonagravedad.com/modules.php?name=News&...
Something like this:
"When in a bend the tire starts to slide laterally (or in a braking slip ratio longitudinally by sliding), the corners of the blocks that form the channels rubber push any residual water in the same way that a rubber scraper dry glass and so manage to dry the surface rubber blocks that come behind you. It is therefore important that the corners have a very sharp angle (not rounded). The very fine longitudinal grooves are designed to assist in this function than to accommodate large quantities of water."
Hope it helps.
Mmm lots of advice. I'm thinking new tyres needed just from the range of types of slip I was having.
The videos interesting, you're a lot more confident with oversteer than me, but you're also clearly getting a lot more drive and retardation, it looks like mainly power oversteer out of the corners..
The videos interesting, you're a lot more confident with oversteer than me, but you're also clearly getting a lot more drive and retardation, it looks like mainly power oversteer out of the corners..
Mike
I experienced something similar at Rockingham 2 years ago. Damp/misty all day and had to tiptoe round some of the corners Io avoid power oversteer. Having a CSR260 on 1 year old (5,000 miles) tyres didn't help as the rears were at the end of heir life.
I was the slowest thing on the track, mainly because I couldn't use more than about 1/3 throttle.
Great fun though!
Steve
I experienced something similar at Rockingham 2 years ago. Damp/misty all day and had to tiptoe round some of the corners Io avoid power oversteer. Having a CSR260 on 1 year old (5,000 miles) tyres didn't help as the rears were at the end of heir life.
I was the slowest thing on the track, mainly because I couldn't use more than about 1/3 throttle.
Great fun though!
Steve
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