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MikeO996

Original Poster:

1,747 posts

111 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
I had a day at Brands Hatch yesterday, annoyingly, given the decent weather either side, it was damp to wet all day.
I was just about the slowest thing out there; wheel spin in a straight line, locking up under braking, over steer in the tight corners, under steer in the fast, all in a gear higher than usual and at pitifully low speeds.

I know Caterhams are going to be skittish but this seemed ridiculous. I'm running Avon CR500s, partly worn, I'm wondering whether it is significant that they're about 7 years old, has the compound just gone off? Anything else about set up that might be wrong, it handles beautifully on a warm dry day?

Edited by MikeO996 on Tuesday 9th October 19:05


Edited by MikeO996 on Tuesday 9th October 19:06

Cock Womble 7

29,908 posts

117 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
I?

MikeO996

Original Poster:

1,747 posts

111 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Cock Womble 7 said:
I?
Must have pressed submit by accident wink

BertBert

8,352 posts

98 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Don't know what it'd be like with new ones, but 7 years is quite old. My experience though in wet track days is that 7s are really skittish unless you are able to run race wets!
Bert

pipnjones

111 posts

36 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
MikeO996 said:
Cock Womble 7 said:
I?
Must have pressed submit by accident wink
Or maybe try changing I to we? Were there other sevens having similar probs?

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MikeO996

Original Poster:

1,747 posts

111 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
pipnjones said:
Or maybe try changing I to we? Were there other sevens having similar probs?
There was only one other 7 and they gave up at lunchtime after just a couple runs, but it was properly raining then.

grenpayne

747 posts

49 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
I would agree that 7 year old CR500 are not helping an already bad situation. I had a track day at Combe in the wet earlier this year and what you describe is very similar to my experiences of the handling. I even managed to spin on the sighting lap getmecoat

James.S

569 posts

99 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Brands is great fun in the wet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a53N6sCgReQ&fea...

Probably a combination of tyres, setup and line.

fergus

5,176 posts

162 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
James.S said:
Brands is great fun in the wet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a53N6sCgReQ&fea...

Probably a combination of tyres, setup and line.
james, nice driving!

Is that an S3 or a CSR? What tyres and dampers are you running? thks


Dave J

636 posts

153 months

[news] 
Wednesday 10th October 2012 quote quote all
may e a significant part was the driver inputs ?

tyrewrecker

6,419 posts

41 months

[news] 
Wednesday 10th October 2012 quote quote all
fergus said:
james, nice driving!

Is that an S3 or a CSR? What tyres and dampers are you running? thks
Looks very controllable

coppice

1,518 posts

31 months

[news] 
Wednesday 10th October 2012 quote quote all
I wouldn't worry about it; Sevens are bloody awful in the wet,especially on smooth racetracks. At the same track and in the same car from 'why do I bother, I am hopeless and the car is worse'(being overtaken by very mundane machinery and spinning embarassingly ) to ' my word , I am indeed a driving god '(scalping a GT3 and GT2 in successive laps).

James.S

569 posts

99 months

[news] 
Wednesday 10th October 2012 quote quote all
fergus said:
james, nice driving!

Is that an S3 or a CSR? What tyres and dampers are you running? thks
Its a stock Superlight R300 Challenge race car on CR500's with decent tread depth.

ewenm

27,006 posts

132 months

[news] 
Wednesday 10th October 2012 quote quote all
Driver inputs - you need to be so so gentle and wait an age when it's really wet.
Tyres - need a decent tread depth. Old worn CR500s might struggle.
LSD - does your car have one? Spinning up the inside wheel and going nowhere is likely if not hehe

On a very wet day at (old) Anglesey I was being overtaken by everything but still having loads of fun drifting the car around at relatively low speeds. It did wonders for my brake pedal feel, heel and toe ability and my oversteer control (throttle and steering).

Benur

66 posts

27 months

[news] 
Wednesday 10th October 2012 quote quote all
I am no expert, but for what you say it (wheel spin on straights...) it looks more as old tyres.

While tread depth is probably the most important, I read recently that in wet conditions it is the "edges" of the blocks what give you grip (I am no English native, so excuse me if I cannot explain myself properly).

Said in another way, you should look at your tyres and check if the cross section of the blocks on the surface show "sharp" corners (like when new) or "rounded" ones (like an old pencil eraser). I am sorry but I cannot find where I read that, but I found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDBQNpFjtrIsmile

Another point, what where your tyre pressures? If they were a little high it would explain everything.

Benur

66 posts

27 months

[news] 
Wednesday 10th October 2012 quote quote all
Found it! But I am afraid it is in Spanish... you always can use Google translate:

http://www.zonagravedad.com/modules.php?name=News&...

Something like this:

"When in a bend the tire starts to slide laterally (or in a braking slip ratio longitudinally by sliding), the corners of the blocks that form the channels rubber push any residual water in the same way that a rubber scraper dry glass and so manage to dry the surface rubber blocks that come behind you. It is therefore important that the corners have a very sharp angle (not rounded). The very fine longitudinal grooves are designed to assist in this function than to accommodate large quantities of water."

Hope it helps.

MikeO996

Original Poster:

1,747 posts

111 months

[news] 
Wednesday 10th October 2012 quote quote all
Mmm lots of advice. I'm thinking new tyres needed just from the range of types of slip I was having.
The videos interesting, you're a lot more confident with oversteer than me, but you're also clearly getting a lot more drive and retardation, it looks like mainly power oversteer out of the corners..

sjmmarsh

422 posts

107 months

[news] 
Wednesday 10th October 2012 quote quote all
Mike

I experienced something similar at Rockingham 2 years ago. Damp/misty all day and had to tiptoe round some of the corners Io avoid power oversteer. Having a CSR260 on 1 year old (5,000 miles) tyres didn't help as the rears were at the end of heir life.

I was the slowest thing on the track, mainly because I couldn't use more than about 1/3 throttle.

Great fun though!

Steve

HustleRussell

6,729 posts

47 months

[news] 
Wednesday 10th October 2012 quote quote all
7 year old tyres will be pants.
Also what pressures were you using?

ian2144

1,119 posts

109 months

[news] 
Thursday 11th October 2012 quote quote all
I have Khumo's Great in the dry, Sh!!t in the wet(road use only)
Will move over to CR500's for next summer.
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