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Zad
8,709 posts
105 months
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Otispunkmeyer said: Wonder if it had been an engine under wing aircraft would there have been a fire? In theory they should detach on contact and be left behind as the rest of the plane continues on. In reality though, they rarely seem to do that. You can see why early jetliners favoured tail-mounted engines. They have their problems, but in this instance it seems they were a pretty good choice.
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Johna
1,875 posts
39 months
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Otispunkmeyer said: Just wondering actually.... the chase plane isn't quite fast enough. What if, once the pilots had bailed, the speed of the 727 crept up a little? then flew slightly out of the poor range of the radio controllers? What was their contingency for that? Lol an aircraft full of dummies flying in a straight line over america... would of been interesting! The flight plan was in line of a mountain if that happened.
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Eric Mc
67,256 posts
134 months
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Otispunkmeyer
2,798 posts
24 months
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Zad said: In theory they should detach on contact and be left behind as the rest of the plane continues on. In reality though, they rarely seem to do that. You can see why early jetliners favoured tail-mounted engines. They have their problems, but in this instance it seems they were a pretty good choice. In a water landing they seem like they would act like massive buckets! Hopefully they would rip off but I remember that one crash were they were taken over by terrorists and the pilot ditched it in the sea near an island, one engine clipped into the water before the other and the whole plane seemed to just turn to confetti.
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Otispunkmeyer
2,798 posts
24 months
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Johna said: The flight plan was in line of a mountain if that happened. That would of been a good experiment. 10 points if you can put a dummy back together.
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Justin Cyder
6,127 posts
18 months
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Eric Mc said: I can think of very few accidents - even accidents that happened during the landing phase - that were caused by an exceessive rate of decent AND with the undercarriage lowered at the same time. Then you don't think enough. British Midland Kegworth, Turkish Schipol, Eastern Airlines JFK, FedEx Narita, PIA Kathmandu, Delta DFW, United Sioux City and those are just the ones I can recall from memory & just in the past twenty years. In other words, p  s off Eric.
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onyx39
3,450 posts
19 months
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Justin Cyder said: British Midland Kegworth, Turkish Schipol, Eastern Airlines JFK, FedEx Narita, PIA Kathmandu, Delta DFW, United Sioux City . But APART from those. How many have there been? 
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Ayahuasca
16,057 posts
148 months
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No need to be rude, we are all in the same plane here!
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Justin Cyder
6,127 posts
18 months
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onyx39 said: But APART from those. How many have there been? Good point, but whatever happens, don't let me become didactic...
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Ayahuasca
16,057 posts
148 months
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onyx39 said: But APART from those. How many have there been? To make this a worthwhile discussion you need to define "caused".
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tank slapper
7,746 posts
152 months
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miniman said: The remote control setup seemed extraordinarily crude - surely they would have had cameras giving a pilots eye view along with some telemetry? And frankly the lack of a chase plane that could keep up made this look more like a drama than a documentary. I posted a reply to this earlier, but it doesn't seem to be showing up. I read some answers the pilot operating the remote control gave about it, and he said that the reason for the simple system was mainly due to limitations in getting it certified to fly.
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Simpo Two
54,231 posts
134 months
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Otispunkmeyer said: I remember that one crash were they were taken over by terrorists and the pilot ditched it in the sea near an island, one engine clipped into the water before the other and the whole plane seemed to just turn to confetti. Comoros Islands hijack - it was port wingtip IIRC. Due to dumbass hijackers trying to take control from the pilot at the last moment (as well as thinking it had enough fuel to fly to Australia). DOH!
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IforB
4,951 posts
98 months
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Justin Cyder said: Well, if you can point me toward accidents where the plane has crashed into a cloud, then we can talk. There have been many cases of aircraft crashing into Cumulus Granitus...
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bennyboydurham
1,207 posts
43 months
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An interesting programme but survivability is still frankly a crapshoot.
The 727 has a nice smooth underbelly unlike more modern airliners with low slung engines, the desert sand probably snuffed out sparks which would create a fire had they come down on concrete and a pilot at the controls would have not landed nose first, possibly keeping the hull intact. Too many factors, too many variables to reach a conclusion methinks.
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onyx39
3,450 posts
19 months
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Simpo Two said: Comoros Islands hijack - it was port wingtip IIRC. Due to dumbass hijackers trying to take control from the pilot at the last moment (as well as thinking it had enough fuel to fly to Australia). DOH! Ethiopian 767 http://youtu.be/AvtYtvd5x60
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garyhun
13,991 posts
97 months
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Otispunkmeyer said: That would of been a good experiment. 10 points if you can put a dummy back together. HAVE
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RDM
1,292 posts
76 months
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Didn't quite get details of distances but...
They landed a bit short, 1/2 mile or so maybe, if they had lost connection between the plane the
distance off target could have been more. The emergency crews/ fire tenders/ TV vans/ support
vehicles etc looked to be parked up as one large mass...... or Bullseye as it could have been..
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Eric Mc
67,256 posts
134 months
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Justin Cyder said: Eric Mc said: I can think of very few accidents - even accidents that happened during the landing phase - that were caused by an exceessive rate of decent AND with the undercarriage lowered at the same time. Then you don't think enough. British Midland Kegworth, Turkish Schipol, Eastern Airlines JFK, FedEx Narita, PIA Kathmandu, Delta DFW, United Sioux City and those are just the ones I can recall from memory & just in the past twenty years. In other words, p s off Eric. Nice - I always like well mannered debate. 20 years you say - Sioux City 1989 - 23 years Kegworth - 1988 - 24 years Delta Fort Worth - 1985 - 27 years And I'm pretty sure the Eastern Airlines 727 accidnt must at least 30 years old All very different accidents.
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telecat
6,224 posts
110 months
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Watched part of it last night and there were a few relevant points about the 727 and chase plane. Firstly the 727 is pretty much how airliners are built still. Getting a 787 or A380 just might prove difficult. It also is relatively small so would not make that big a mess to clear up. It's also easy to get out of due to the rear stairwell that was built in as part of the brief of going into small lightly manned airports. The downsides are obviously that it's engine configuration is only used on small airliners these days so the effect of the engines hitting is not recorded. On the upside they do get "clean" info on the impact. I have to say that even counting the number of them in service the number of accidents involving 737's isn't comforting. Perhaps it's done to the era they were designed in. L1011's and MD-10's seem to be equally vulnerable. The chase plane used was a backup as the Machetti they were intending to use developed a fault in the fuel pump. With a Max speed of 230ish knots that would have been ok to keep up the Cessna 337 was struggling at 170 Knots.
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onyx39
3,450 posts
19 months
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telecat] L1011's and MD-10's seem to be equally vulnerable. said: I flew to Houston in 96 in a BA ( ex Bcal) DC10. Was bloody terrified, was convince fit was going to drop out of the sky at any moment!
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