"Modern Classics" 40 minute race series

"Modern Classics" 40 minute race series

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Discussion

shim

2,050 posts

207 months

Wednesday 25th November 2015
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e36er said:
Due to the changes in regulations we won't be there, which is a shame.
whilst I have absolutely no interest in changing anything as we loved last year, I think CSCC and the complaining busybodies will see it as an existing rule enforcement rather than a rule change, so there will be no change, just a clarification I guess so some Porsche can finish 8th instead of 10th meanwhile we will loose the fun we had last year with all the close competition.

Thurbs

2,780 posts

221 months

Thursday 26th November 2015
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Errr.. what change? I am confused!

Is it the items for the drivers meeting? I hope they change the pit stops to more Roadsports style. Getting in and out really benefits the drivers with large crews, where as solo drivers like me and a few others have to faf around on our own for minutes. Kind of spoils the race because it is effectively over after 20 minutes.

andy97

Original Poster:

4,691 posts

221 months

Thursday 26th November 2015
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shim said:
whilst I have absolutely no interest in changing anything as we loved last year, I think CSCC and the complaining busybodies will see it as an existing rule enforcement rather than a rule change, so there will be no change, just a clarification I guess so some Porsche can finish 8th instead of 10th meanwhile we will loose the fun we had last year with all the close competition.
I suspect that the rules will be clarified, not changed, so that it's even clearer that those people who have been bending the rules will have to comply.


houlbt

738 posts

264 months

Thursday 26th November 2015
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Well with that rule clarification S54 powered E36 M3's are no longer eligible for Modern Classics or New Millenniums. This is a shame as there as some fantastic racing out there in 2015. I know of 4 cars including mine that are now ruled out, big question is if they all move together somewhere else will then other still eligible BMWs, TVRs and Porsches that had such tight races with them defect and join them?

frown

andy97

Original Poster:

4,691 posts

221 months

Thursday 26th November 2015
quotequote all
S54 engined E36 M3s never were eligible because that model never existed in the range.

If they raced before then they should not have done. I wasn't expert enough to know when I was the co-or donator up to end of 2014, but plenty of people were BMW experts.

Cscc has very few rules. It's not unreasonable to expect competitors to comply with the few they do have.

Edited by andy97 on Thursday 26th November 22:53

shim

2,050 posts

207 months

Friday 27th November 2015
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andy97 said:
S54 engined E36 M3s never were eligible because that model never existed in the range.

If they raced before then they should not have done. I wasn't expert enough to know when I was the co-or donator up to end of 2014, but plenty of people were BMW experts.

Cscc has very few rules. It's not unreasonable to expect competitors to comply with the few they do have.

Edited by andy97 on Thursday 26th November 22:53
The E36/7 did come with an S54 in 2001+ so I think in theory it could run in NM although I think it will be argued the "body shape" was different.

NJH

3,021 posts

208 months

Friday 27th November 2015
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No different then to putting a tuned 968 engine in a fully lightened 944 S2 really, or a tune S4/GTS engine in a lightweight early 928.

Andy you are right of course but to put it bluntly pot hunting has always been an attraction of the CSCC for some.

houlbt

738 posts

264 months

Friday 27th November 2015
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andy97 said:
S54 engined E36 M3s never were eligible because that model never existed in the range.

If they raced before then they should not have done. I wasn't expert enough to know when I was the co-or donator up to end of 2014, but plenty of people were BMW experts.

Cscc has very few rules. It's not unreasonable to expect competitors to comply with the few they do have.
Andy - don't think you need to worry about what happened on your watch. Fwiw to my knowledge there were no S54 power BMW E36 M3's in the series in 2014, the changes came from 2015.

The rules were open to interpretation as they only referred to "same engine type" - my car as discussed already on this thread was one of those which moved to an S54 engine in 2015. I accept not all will believe me but this decision was made for economic reasons not performance reasons and my car now has less power than it did in 2014... all I can say to corroborate this is that if you look back at my historic times on TSL timing you will see my car is no quicker than it was pre 2015.

Anyway, not that this matters.

For the record we were very open with the club about the engine change in 2015. After the end of the season they've considered everything and their decision to clarify the rules for 2016 now leaves my car ineligible, that is their decision and I respect that.

I only lament that there has been some great close racing in the Modern Classics and New Millennium series in 2015 between 8-9 different cars at the front and it will be a shame to no longer be part of that

houlbt

738 posts

264 months

Friday 27th November 2015
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Mitch911

227 posts

168 months

Friday 27th November 2015
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Great looking car, shame you won't be out next year. I race in the M7s and used to think this series looked very appealing for a second drive.

BAZZ69

64 posts

177 months

Friday 27th November 2015
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Good picture. Was Luke just about to overtake you Tom lol??
Bazz

Richair

1,021 posts

196 months

Saturday 28th November 2015
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I have a slightly OT question to put to you guys (Andy especially) but is related to the interpretation of the rules: what's the view on non-standard flush bonnet vents in relation to the silhouette rule? I was considering some venting for my 951 to maximise cooling, similar to these deutch nine vents: http://www.deutschnine.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen...

Yes, no or a grey area?

shim

2,050 posts

207 months

Saturday 28th November 2015
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Id say if it is just cooling you are not changing the silhouette so you'll be fine BUT if they also aid aerodynamics then you is cheating smile

andy97

Original Poster:

4,691 posts

221 months

Saturday 28th November 2015
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Richair said:
I have a slightly OT question to put to you guys (Andy especially) but is related to the interpretation of the rules: what's the view on non-standard flush bonnet vents in relation to the silhouette rule? I was considering some venting for my 951 to maximise cooling, similar to these deutch nine vents: http://www.deutschnine.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen...

Yes, no or a grey area?
Rich, I'm no longer the co-ordinator so it's not my call any more; you need to ask at the CSCC office, but in my opinion, they should be ok, but ask!

Richair

1,021 posts

196 months

Saturday 28th November 2015
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Thanks chaps, I'll get in touch with them to check before I start hacking through any bodywork! I'm only thinking of some fairly minimal vents just to improve flow through the rad and coolers so any aero advantage would be negligible (think Siera Cosworth scale of vents), but I don't want to be accused of cheating. smile

PistonSquizz

101 posts

189 months

Wednesday 9th December 2015
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Our plans for next season have hit a bump. We were hoping to have a monster engine build, but our 5 speed gearbox is the limiting factor. Dog box kits are expensive! It may yet happen this year, but it's more likely to be ready for the following season.

We'll just make do with current power levels and invest in a brake upgrade to make the most of what we have.

It's a shame. I fancied giving the Bimmers and Porkers a bit of a surprise. ;-)

Cheburator mk2

2,973 posts

198 months

Wednesday 9th December 2015
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Richair said:
Thanks chaps, I'll get in touch with them to check before I start hacking through any bodywork! I'm only thinking of some fairly minimal vents just to improve flow through the rad and coolers so any aero advantage would be negligible (think Siera Cosworth scale of vents), but I don't want to be accused of cheating. smile
Don't go there - my 928 has radiator exhaust vent on the bonnet as well as intake vents either side of it. Someone reported me to the Office and was told I have to get rid of all. The exhaust vent has a spoiler lip at the front, which is 10mm raised, while the intakes are also 10mm. I have zero aero advantage, since I am not running a splitter or a flat floor. However, the radiator exhaust allows me to run a 12:1 compression engine consistently at 90C, even allowing for heat soak, and the cold air intake vents allow the engine to run ITBs and make 500bhp. Hence it was all deemed unfair advantage because of the 10mm protrusion. I would be allowed to keep all bonnet openings as long as they are flush with the original bodywork.

I can kind of see their point, but frankly, it is getting a bit funny with everything...

Richair

1,021 posts

196 months

Wednesday 9th December 2015
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Cheburator mk2 said:
Don't go there - my 928 has radiator exhaust vent on the bonnet as well as intake vents either side of it. Someone reported me to the Office and was told I have to get rid of all. The exhaust vent has a spoiler lip at the front, which is 10mm raised, while the intakes are also 10mm. I have zero aero advantage, since I am not running a splitter or a flat floor. However, the radiator exhaust allows me to run a 12:1 compression engine consistently at 90C, even allowing for heat soak, and the cold air intake vents allow the engine to run ITBs and make 500bhp. Hence it was all deemed unfair advantage because of the 10mm protrusion. I would be allowed to keep all bonnet openings as long as they are flush with the original bodywork.

I can kind of see their point, but frankly, it is getting a bit funny with everything...
Interesting... Thanks for this, I was afraid that someone might pick fault with any protrusion if they'd had their nose put out on circuit. I've not spoken with them yet as I'm working on other areas of the car at present, but I will do. I would really like to improve airflow through the coolers and over the turbo though (nothing more than this) just to keep the car reliable. I guess a flush vent (maybe with some recessed fins) would still achieve this, but obviously would not be as effective as louvres and wouldn't look as pretty. It's a bit of a frustrating one if its seen a no-go when Sierra Cosworth's in the same series have them as standard, but rules be rules!

PistonSquizz

101 posts

189 months

Wednesday 9th December 2015
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To allow us to run in the series, we had to turn our bonnet scoop around to the original position. With the scoop reversed it helped extract air from the FMIC/radiator and from over the engine. Now back in its normal alignment it's probably not helping with cooling.

Hazee

25 posts

125 months

Tuesday 15th December 2015
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Why not move to the open series ?